Spartan Vortex info!

[Gixxer]

I would be very pleased to see Mikado using decent sensors, if nothing else it would result to a similar production cost for them as for us thus balancing out the price competitiveness. The hardware quality of flybarless systems has been going downhill since BeastX started using the el-cheapo Invensense sensors and Mikado blindly followed. These sensors are intended for games consoles and mobile phones; they are not designed for vibration environments and I have zero interest in using them. See here what's the difference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iPlyVxHEYk&list=UUegFelnZEOssuQx0aFPa7uA&index=1

Maybe at last it will be able to fly without the vibration analyser! ;D

-Angelos

That's a bit unfair don't you think... knocking other manufacturers' products to plug your own?

I'm surprised it's even allowed.

[lee mister]

That's a bit unfair don't you think... knocking other manufacturers' products to plug your own?

I'm surprised it's even allowed.

Unfare or not, all I can say is Spartan was the best tail I ever had . I can't wait to see how this performs .


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[Ross Northcott]

I will be sticking with the vbar, i didnt think the spartan gyro's were much better than the align 750 personally if at all, plus i would like to know i have a vibration and fix it rather than masking it.

[Angelos]

[...] Are these "el-cheapo" sensors fit for purpose? I would say in 99% of cases that it's a simple answer; yes.

Ok, let me explain...

The sensor cost is a major concern to me and I have spoken to countless users of other FBL systems before making my decision. The percentage of happy users is far lower than the 99% you are guessing and that's not good enough for me. Aside from competent pilots like you there are many more inexperienced people who don't know how to fix their heli vibration issues. There are also people like me that can't be bothered or have time to do it. Most people expect the heli to just work and enjoy their weekend than faffing about.

Sensor failure rates are also major factor for me. For the Quark I have yet seen one sensor failure so clearly the investment in the better sensors is paying off. The new sensors I am buying for the Vortex have less than one failure in 1 million sold; on a three axis system less than one failure in 333000 units. Thus it is very likely that we will never see a Vortex with a bad gyro sensor too!

Finally, if the "el-cheapo" sensors are good enough why is Mikado now changing them for sensors that costs 1200% more? I mean, they went from good sensors (same ones we used in the ds760) to cheap and now back to good. Almost looks like they regretted their choice.

Cheers,
-Angelos

[Ross Northcott]

Ok, let me explain...

The sensor cost is a major concern to me and I have spoken to countless users of other FBL systems before making my decision. The percentage of happy users is far lower than the 99% you are guessing and that's not good enough for me. Aside from competent pilots like you there are many more inexperienced people who don't know how to fix their heli vibration issues. There are also people like me that can't be bothered or have time to do it. Most people expect the heli to just work and enjoy their weekend than faffing about.

Sensor failure rates are also major factor for me. For the Quark I have yet seen one sensor failure so clearly the investment in the better sensors is paying off. The new sensors I am buying for the Vortex have less than one failure in 1 million sold; on a three axis system less than one failure in 333000 units. Thus it is very likely that we will never see a Vortex with a bad gyro sensor too!

Finally, if the "el-cheapo" sensors are good enough why is Mikado now changing them for sensors that costs 1200% more? I mean, they went from good sensors (same ones we used in the ds760) to cheap and now back to good. Almost looks like they regretted their choice.

Cheers,
-Angelos

Awful advice, regarding vibrations, you SHOULD always fix vibrations before worse things happen, not try to mask them.

[Angelos]

That's a bit unfair don't you think... knocking other manufacturers' products to plug your own?

I'm surprised it's even allowed.

Quite the opposite. I praise Mikado them if they go back to a good sensor as rumoured.

-Angelos

[sacko]

Looking forward to see another FBL controller out.

Out of interest what frequency range can these type of sensors tolerate compared to Beastx/vbar invensense sensors, which can tolerate up to 20khz (apparently).

[Angelos]

Awful advice, regarding vibrations, you SHOULD always fix vibrations before worse things happen, not try to mask them.

Perhaps it was badly worded... Of course you should fix them but there will always be vibrations on a heli. The question is what level of vibration is acceptable and whether you electronics can tolerate it.

From my point of view the gyro/fbl system has a function which is to fly your heli. It's purpose is not to drift to tell you that its not happy with how much vibration is on the heli. You can choose when you want to service it not your gyro. Whist we may agree or not here I know that people are happy when things just work. The vibration is Align's, Avant's, ElyQ's, TT's... problem; not mine! But it becomes mine when the gyro/fbl isn't happy.

But realistically what is the worst that can happen from vibration? The vertical fin of my Trex 600 has been shaking since day one and I have still not found the cause. The bearings are still doing fine and when they start wearing out vibrations will worsen and I can revisit the issue then. So far I had 100s of drift free flights.

-Angelos

[LipolyGone]

I guess if the wire between the vortex & the rx fails like my quark wire did it will be prety irelevent what sensors are in it.

[Ross Northcott]

Vibration on 2 x srimoks, ignored and flew, tail blade grip came off, heli crashed twice from screws coming loose, £450 damage, velocity boom support screw came loose from a tail vibrations, could not land and crashed more £££, numerous exhausts coming loose , i could go on but wont.

[Angelos]

Looking forward to see another FBL controller out.

Out of interest what frequency range can these type of sensors tolerate compared to Beastx/vbar invensense sensors, which can tolerate up to 20khz (apparently).

The high frequencies are not a problem (as long as they don't match the sensors internal resonance) you can remove them with a low-pass filter. In fact, there isn't anything on a heli above ~300Hz and that's where the problem lies... the vibration and motion fall into the same band thus you can't separate the useful stuff (motion) from the vibration. However, there are gyro sensors cleverly designed so they are less affected by vibration and there is substantially less unwanted signal on their output.

Vibration on 2 x srimoks, ignored and flew, tail blade grip came off, heli crashed twice from screws coming loose, £450 damage, velocity boom support screw came loose from a tail vibrations, could not land and crashed more £££, numerous exhausts coming loose , i could go on but wont.

Ok, fair point. Obviously your experiences are different than mine. Most of the time I don't deal with things that fly of the heli but stubborn vibrations that's won't go away despite changing the obvious parts.

-Angelos

[Andy from Sandy]

I would be very pleased to see Mikado using decent sensors, if nothing else it would result to a similar production cost for them as for us thus balancing out the price competitiveness. The hardware quality of flybarless systems has been going downhill since BeastX started using the el-cheapo Invensense sensors and Mikado blindly followed. These sensors are intended for games consoles and mobile phones; they are not designed for vibration environments and I have zero interest in using them.

As you made it public all I can say is stop moaning and get your product out to stand side by side with the compatition and allow joe public to decide whether they want yours or not. You have no availability and no price and already you are bitching that you want your competition to release a more expensive product to hide on the face of it a high priced unit coming from you.

[trillian]

Can we please keep this thread limited to information and details on the Vortex and not turn it into an attack on Spartan for whatever personal reasons. I think most agree that Spartan has historically made very good products. I think we would also agree that most would like to have manufacturers be able to post on here without being jumped on left and right. Keep it up and no manufacturers will take the time to post anything here in the future.

[Andy from Sandy]

As I see it Angelos brought it upon himself by bemoning his apparent inability to compete with the inferior products released by Freakware and Mikado. As we have not seen his product yet I think it a bit rich. So if you don't want to be attacked about competitive products it is probably best not to mention them in the first place and bring them into focus.

[Jamin_00]

I for one, even though I'm a big vbar fan thought there gyros were excellent so im eager to try one