Spartan DS760 gyros

[raptorheli2]

allow me to clarify.

1. the ds760 sport will get it's own firmware that is different from the normal 760

2. if the user registers the sport and pays (currently free for UK) then it is a normal 760 and will make use of the 760 full firmware.

3. the ds760 sport will NOT work with the PC software until it is upgraded. if it's never upgraded then you can't connect to the PC software etc.

cheers

[mark Taylor]

I think you can only connect the gyro thru the firmware loader only, until it's upgraded?

Cheers

Mark

[scallybert]

you can't use the ds760 sport with USB as that is why it is not a full blown DS760. the software/usb port isn't enabled on the gyro..............until you get the free update which is due out as per the website.

That's what's become apparent.

[I should make it clear, I'm perfectly happy. I'm not whinging.]

I'd hoped that the basic features (servo limits, servo type, etc) would still be set-able via USB, and it was just the 'advanced parameters' that weren't.

It may be designed for experts, but the DS760 is also a brilliant beginner gyro. Really easy to set-up via USB, and (IME) 'just works' brilliantly.

I hoped the 'Sport' was going to keep that, but make the price more accessible.

The price is slightly more accessible (within economic constraints), but I think the ease of use has gone by losing the USB set-up.

[raptorheli2]

i may have replied above while you were posting but allow me to comment.

the 760 sport was designed to compete with the likes of the 401/770 etc and already has more setting choices than both of them put together wether you upgrade it or not. a lot of people i have seen/spoke to requested a cheaper gyro that doesn't have the pc functionality as they have never plugged it in to make use of it. spartan decided to offer this and now these users have the cheaper gyro...BUT also get a choice to upgrade later should they wish to do so. if the 760 sport and 760 had same options then one would negate the other so has to be a line in sand somewhere.

thankfully spartan decided to offer the UK a free upgrade to the full 760 for time being.

cheers

[SRH990]

I can understand providing a 'budget' version, similar to CSM with the 720 & 630 gyros but from what I can gather, the only difference between the 760 & 760S is the crippled software on the 760S which can be flashed with the upgrade, when available, to make it a full 760 - if this is the case, how long before someone comes up with a software hack!

If this is the case the 760S is actually no cheaper to make than the 760 but if you want to take advantage of the 'free' upgrade you'll need to spend £20 on a USB lead. Of course there are plenty of people with a USB lead who could do this quite easily. I'm just a bit concerned that once the updated firmware is downloadable for the 760S then it might rapidly find itself on file sharing services all over the net so how do Spartan protect their interests then?

[machasm]

The firmware is already available for downlaod for the full blown 760.
I guess what I found confusing was that you do not have any PC connectivity through the USB port yet the firmware is upgradeable through the USB port (I assume since this is something you can do at home).
So there must be some sort of connectivity or we would not be able to upgrade it without sending it back to Spartan.

[raptorheli2]

there has been a LOT of hours spent on securing the gyro and quite a few measures put in place from what i gather.

the 760 sport WILL have usb connectivity for the 760 sport firmware ONLY. you can't connect it up to the pc software.......unless you upgrade the gyro. you can upgrade the sport gyro from home via the software due out as per the website. this is not a simple change in terms of making software.

in terms of spec the 760 sport will not be able to make use of the upcoming 1.09 firmware for the 760 which has a fw changes, some of which have already been listed. notably the new 506 mode will not be an option for example.

cheers

[synergyn9]

there has been a LOT of hours spent on securing the gyro and quite a few measures put in place from what i gather.

the 760 sport WILL have usb connectivity for the 760 sport firmware ONLY. you can't connect it up to the pc software.......unless you upgrade the gyro. you can upgrade the sport gyro from home via the software due out as per the website. this is not a simple change in terms of making software.

in terms of spec the 760 sport will not be able to make use of the upcoming 1.09 firmware for the 760 which has a fw changes, some of which have already been listed. notably the new 506 mode will not be an option for example.

cheers

even once upgraded?

[scallybert]

i may have replied above while you were posting but allow me to comment.

Be my guest...

[...]a lot of people i have seen/spoke to requested a cheaper gyro that doesn't have the pc functionality as they have never plugged it in to make use of it. spartan decided to offer this and now these users have the cheaper gyro...BUT also get a choice to upgrade later should they wish to do so. if the 760 sport and 760 had same options then one would negate the other so has to be a line in sand somewhere.

I may be unusual in that I value the PC a lot more than some others do. Actually, it's more a case of hating 'stick programming' - though I've just done a 2100T, and that was ok.

I'm completely on-board with the principle of hardware commonality, and paying for the (firmware) functionality you want. I think this should be the future in a lot of model avionics.

Where I disagree (and I've got a very personal perspective here), is where those functionality and price lines are drawn.

thankfully spartan decided to offer the UK a free upgrade to the full 760 for time being.

It's a nice touch. I may not have a product matched to my exact needs, but I'm not complaining.

I can understand providing a 'budget' version, similar to CSM with the 720 & 630 gyros but from what I can gather, the only difference between the 760 & 760S is the crippled software on the 760S which can be flashed with the upgrade, when available, to make it a full 760 - if this is the case, how long before someone comes up with a software hack!

If this is the case the 760S is actually no cheaper to make than the 760 but if you want to take advantage of the 'free' upgrade you'll need to spend £20 on a USB lead. Of course there are plenty of people with a USB lead who could do this quite easily. I'm just a bit concerned that once the updated firmware is downloadable for the 760S then it might rapidly find itself on file sharing services all over the net so how do Spartan protect their interests then?

The principal of having add-on features enabled through software is well-established in many fields. (Ok, Spartan have arguably gone in reverse by offering the high-end product first, but the principl remains.)

The trick is to unlock the features in a secure way that isn't also a PITA.

Each DS760 has a unique serial #, which the firmware can read (you can tell from the PC software). I'd guess the firmware you download will be keyed to this in some way. Since it's going to be loaded onto the gyro with the co-operation of firmware that's already on there (bit like a boot ROM), I guess that's in a position to make sure you're loading firmware you're entitled to. Or somesuch.

Of course, this paves the way for the 'DS760 Professional'. I wonder if we get a free upgrade to that firmware too..?

[raptorheli2]

even once upgraded?

when you upgrade it you have a FULL 760 and everything will work.


scallybert-

angelos pondered for a good while where to draw the line and this was probably the most economical for all concerned. for example if someone buys a sport and still needs to buy a pc lead then that may be seen as a pi$$ take by the vast majority. this way the user atleast has the option.

the security in place to protect the gyros is pretty impressive let me say.

cheers

p.s there will not be a 760 "professional" as the normal 760 is the full product

[Brewber]

Have I understood this right then....

The Sport (£122) is on offer for a free upgrade to the "Pro" (£139), which requires the purchase of a USB Flash lead (£21.50)....

...which means to get a Pro I need to spend £122-ish + £21-ish = £139....the price of the Pro...so why bother upgrade the Sport?

Unless I've misunderstood...and that for the Pro to interface to the PC I still need to buy this additional Flash Lead...in which case upgrading to get full functionality with each gyro it would be cheaper to upgrade the Sport.

Any help for a thickie here?!

[machasm]

Have I understood this right then....

The Sport (£122) is on offer for a free upgrade to the "Pro" (£139), which requires the purchase of a USB Flash lead (£21.50)....

...which means to get a Pro I need to spend £122-ish + £21-ish = £139....the price of the Pro...so why bother upgrade the Sport?

Unless I've misunderstood...and that for the Pro to interface to the PC I still need to buy this additional Flash Lead...in which case upgrading to get full functionality with each gyro it would be cheaper to upgrade the Sport.

Any help for a thickie here?!

That just about sums it up.
For some of us though who already have the USB lead (current owners of 760) this is a cheaper way of getting a full blown 760 for now.

[raptorheli2]

Have I understood this right then....

The Sport (£122) is on offer for a free upgrade to the "Pro" (£139), which requires the purchase of a USB Flash lead (£21.50)....

...which means to get a Pro I need to spend £122-ish + £21-ish = £139....the price of the Pro...so why bother upgrade the Sport?

Unless I've misunderstood...and that for the Pro to interface to the PC I still need to buy this additional Flash Lead...in which case upgrading to get full functionality with each gyro it would be cheaper to upgrade the Sport.

Any help for a thickie here?!

i think you maybe have missed a key fact here. to get the spartan 760 normal it is £139 discounted as you rightly said or £144 rrp ish.

the sport is £122 ish also as you said, ok so far so good.

the bit your missing. even if you buy the full gyro you don't have the usb lead to edit the software (assuming first time buyer). so you would be about £165 ish to get a full 760 and usb lead. or if you buy the sport with usb lead you will save about £20....i.e your getting a lead for free if you like and getting the full gyro.

cheers

[raptorheli2]

i'll start a new post as this may cause even more confusion. the ds760 sport will NOT support the new 506 mode OUT THE BOX like the 760 will soon. so for those that do not want to buy the USB lead then there is still a benefit in buying the full gyro over the sport.

those that upgrade the sport again will get the full benefits....inc 506 mode.

cheers

[robgt]

Not sure what 506 mode is, but I look forward to the detailed post in a new thread

I think the gyro upgrade stuff has been pretty clearly sorted now - if you read this thread carefully it's quite clear... to me anyway!
Cheers,
Rob