611 Setup?

[raptorheli2]

my own understanding for it is if you use the atv it limits how far the servo can physically travel but if you use dr the servo knows it can still goto full travel if it has to under high load moves......if it works or not i'm not sure but it kind of makes sense but it doesn't at the same time as you would think if your atv is at 100 and your dr is at 80 then it's only going to move to the 80 even if the tail demands more it might not goto full travel but i assume this is the reason for it IF indeed it is correct.

i have thought about it before and one would assume that because you setup the travel limits in the gyro amp then the gyro knows the servo can move that far if it has to keep the hold even though the radio won't allow it if you see what i mean.

perhaps someone will know for certain but thats what i have always done and adjusted dr.

cheers

[Disc]

my own understanding for it is if you use the atv it limits how far the servo can physically travel but if you use dr the servo knows it can still goto full travel if it has to under high load moves......if it works or not i'm not sure but it kind of makes sense but it doesn't at the same time as you would think if your atv is at 100 and your dr is at 80 then it's only going to move to the 80 even if the tail demands more it might not goto full travel but i assume this is the reason for it IF indeed it is correct.

i have thought about it before and one would assume that because you setup the travel limits in the gyro amp then the gyro knows the servo can move that far if it has to keep the hold even though the radio won't allow it if you see what i mean.

perhaps someone will know for certain but thats what i have always done and adjusted dr.

cheers

that does not affect the Piro rate...

Try this then set channel 4 end point to 50

Now fly your helicopter piro it.

Now land and re-do the end point of channel 4 to 80

Now turn it all off then back on

Now go out and try it again it will piro quicker

D/R only alters how far the servo will move NOT how quick it will piro which is adjustable using channel 4. As I understand it but been wrong a 100 times before... Maybe it achives the same thing just a diffrent way of doing it.

[robgt]

Interesting...

you would think if your atv is at 100 and your dr is at 80 then it's only going to move to the 80

Thats exactly what I would have thought

As far as I know, the servo limits are taken away from the Tx by the gyro amplifier - you set the end points LMTA and LMTB in there - and the gyro then uses those settings to determine how far it can throw the pitch slider, and then the piro speed is set using the end points on the rudder channel. This is whats worked for me anyway

Cheers,
Rob

[raptorheli2]

D/R only alters how far the servo will move NOT how quick it will piro which is adjustable using channel 4

disc the above there iss a quote from you which i know is wrong, i have adjusted dr for many years of 601/611's and it DOES slow the piro down. infact it slows all gyros down, i assume by limiting the overall throw.

i think you are right though in that there seems to be a few ways to achieve various things.

cheers

[Disc]

D/R only alters how far the servo will move NOT how quick it will piro which is adjustable using channel 4

disc the above there iss a quote from you which i know is wrong, i have adjusted dr for many years of 601/611's and it DOES slow the piro down. infact it slows all gyros down, i assume by limiting the overall throw.

i think you are right though in that there seems to be a few ways to achieve various things.

cheers

As I said I am often wrong but i was told by someone thats how to get it to piro faster by setting the EP on channel 4 higher for faster piro rate.

It does not stop the Servo moving the full length of the tail pitch slider though.

D/R would limit the movement of the tail ?

Where the EP doesnt actually limit the throw or again I have this wrong as normal

[raptorheli2]

i'm confused!

lets just all go get a beer from the fridge and go on gears of war on the xbox 360....thats what i'm doing anyway...lol..

right, debate. the actual end point is set in the gyro which we all know. so you limiting the dual rates all your doing is limiting the tail pitch slider moving hard over. but because the end point is set in the gyro the gyro knows it can make full use of the throw (but knows not to allow you to use it to piro faster) when it is needed. i.e when the head is badly bogged.

i would have thought adjusting the EP/ATV (in the radio) and DR has the same effect but as i said before folklaw says adjust DR and not EP (in the radio). the gyro should always be set to maxiumum throw when you do gyro setup.

cheers

[robgt]

The only difference I can think of would be that you can adjust End Points independently of each other to get consistent piro speeds both ways.
Having not used Dual Rates for ages, I'm not sure you can do that there???

Cheers,
Rob

[Steve]

The GYRO controls the limit of mechanical travel of the tail servo, NOT the Tx.

The Tx controls the rate of pirouette i.e. how fast it rotates.

End points on channel 4 control the priouette rate.

End points on channel 5 (if you're set up this way = most common) control the gain of the gyro.

A simple test - hover the heli and do a piro using full rudder stick deflection - the heli spins around fast. Now do it again using only half the amount of rudder stick - the piro speed will be half that of the first one. The rudder channel is controlling the rate of rotation, not the limit of travel of the servo.

That's it in a nutshell my friends.

[raptorheli2]

the manager, we have grasped that and understand that it's fair to say. what i think we're down to now is really why people are advised (i.e me and everyone i know) to use dr and not atv for adjusting the piro rate. i think it is a myth and both will do the same job.

however you boil it down it's a different was to the same end.

cheers

[robgt]

the manager, we have grasped that and understand that

Yep
LOL
Cheers,
Rob

[Steve]

ATV and DR do achieve the same ends with respect to the piro rate. However, using DR means you can use the default radio setup to have your different piro rates switchable on the Tx. Adjusting the ATVs cannot be done in flight via a switch (unless you've got a really fancy Tx).

DR is simply switchable ATV.

[robgt]

ATV and DR do achieve the same ends with respect to the piro rate

Thats what I'm wondering about at the moment - do they achieve the same thing?
Can you set both ends of a dual rate (like you do with ATV), or not?
If not, then surely you can't adjust the piro speed in both directions separately?
?????

Cheers,
Rob

[Steve]

Thats what I'm wondering about at the moment - do they achieve the same thing?
Can you set both ends of a dual rate (like you do with ATV), or not?
If not, then surely you can't adjust the piro speed in both directions separately?
?????

Cheers,
Rob

No, I don't think so. The DR is a proportion of the ATV.

Say you have 90% ATV to the left and 120% to the right as an example. If you now set your DR to 60%, you will have 54% (0.6 x 90) ATV to the left and 72% (0.6 x 120) to the right when the DR is engaged.

The DR is a proportional increase or decrese in the ATV values, across the board.

[raptorheli2]

the manager, i have a 14mz....does that count as fancy? lol

man, this was meant to be a simple thread, here are 3 pages in.....i have 3 words......FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT. hehe

cheers

[robgt]

The DR is a proportional increase or decrese in the ATV values

I know this...
You wouldn't have the ATV's set as you describe though, if you were using D/R to control piro speed, surely - the ATV would be set to 100% both sides as standard?
Which is where my confusion comes in as I can't see how the dual rate would be used to alter piro rates in both directions separately from each other.
If you're going to use ATV to set the piro rate, surely this negates the need to use the D/R entirely (for the same job)?

Cheers,
Rob