Do you still use a flybarred heli Yes/no

[waveydavey]

Wow his dad looks very young in the video ;-)

I'm sure John Parker will be happy that he looks like Wayne

[p4ddy]

I never had Duncan down as a 'Muse' fan lol

[simm0]

Well lads i have test flown the 600fbl(coverted)
It's a lot better than before for several reasons.
It climbs more evenly upright and inverted.
Better climb rate also.
More stable.
Tracks really good in forward flight.
Rolls and flips very accurately.
Better auto performance.
I'm really impressed.
I owe waveydave a pint.

Cheers Craig


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[Jez N]

Well lads i have test flown the 600fbl(coverted)
It's a lot better than before for several reasons.
It climbs more evenly upright and inverted.
Better climb rate also.
More stable.
Tracks really good in forward flight.
Rolls and flips very accurately.
Better auto performance.
I'm really impressed.
I owe waveydave a pint.

Cheers Craig

So its better in pretty much every way! Can you think of anything that isnt better?

What a wonderful thing technology is and nice to have another FBL convert. I think generally most people will see a huge improvement and never look back. Like all things, there will be nostalgia and those who pine for things as they used to be. But for me, if i never saw another flybar again i wouldnt be too bothered.

[milly0812]

Do you still use a flybarred heli Yes/no

And ya wonder why it's sooo popular lol

[pgkevet]

And ya wonder why it's sooo popular lol

Back in my target archery days I was pretty good. One winter shoot I made up a mix of whisky and ginger in a rinsed out sarson's vinegar bottle for the odd nip against the cold. During the tournament a few folk asked my why i was sipping vinegar. I patiently explained that the acid taste made my eyes water and cleared and improved my vision. I came (I think) second or third in the shoot that day and the next week half the competitors were sipping vinegar all day and extolling it's virtues.

[simm0]

So its better in pretty much every way! Can you think of anything that isnt better?

What a wonderful thing technology is and nice to have another FBL convert. I think generally most people will see a huge improvement and never look back. Like all things, there will be nostalgia and those who pine for things as they used to be. But for me, if i never saw another flybar again i wouldnt be too bothered.

I dont like the cost lol.thats it
But it will be staying as it is.i gota fly it alot more yet tho but its looking good
regards Craig

[trillian]

It climbs more evenly upright and inverted.
Better climb rate also.
More stable.
Tracks really good in forward flight.
Rolls and flips very accurately.
Better auto performance.
I'm really impressed.

Cheers Craig

Lately I've been thinking about FBL more and looking at it in different ways. This weekend on Saturday I flew only FBL, the Beam Avantgarde and Trex 500 (Total-G and BeastX respectively). Then Sunday I flew the Rave ENV and the Beam E4 450 both flybarred.

The ENV is obviously bigger than the others and has the mass and inertia (and I think it is a very good flybarred head), it is setup for F3C so set for max stability rather than to be super quick but the flip and roll rate is just right for my flying. The difference in feel is as if you turned the gain down on a FBL machine, so it does not hold a position as rock-solid but due to the sheer size of it this is not such a big deal. On the 450 though, it's a constant process of correcting, keeping the heli level, it's a lot more work flying it.

So my conclusion so far is that the 450 definitely needs to be FBL.

But the bigger picture is that for anything other than F3C hovering, going FBL is an advantage and it does make most aero moves easier and flying in general easier simply because you're not correcting as much to keep the heli where you want it.

The philosophical question is; Do we now have, with the FBL controllers, what the mechanical flybar always 'wanted' to be? Or put another way is this how a helicopter always 'should' have flown but we just didn't have the technology until FBL came along and evolved to where it is now.

I suppose the answer must be yes because if you could tweak your flybarred heli to fly like FBL you would do it.

The other question though is which one is going to make someone a better pilot? On the one hand with a flybar you have to really develop sharp reflexes to make the needed corrections, but with flybarless those corrections are done for you so I know there is one train of thought that the extra stability lets you work on more advanced maneuvers.

[waveydavey]

Well lads i have test flown the 600fbl(coverted)
It's a lot better than before for several reasons.
It climbs more evenly upright and inverted.
Better climb rate also.
More stable.
Tracks really good in forward flight.
Rolls and flips very accurately.
Better auto performance.
I'm really impressed.
I owe waveydave a pint.

Cheers Craig


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Good to hear Craig, the thing is with the 600 it's such a bloody horrible heli to fly with a flybar the unit makes all the difference and you can feel it. Fit a fbl unit to say a heli with an adjustable head and chuck someone who knows what they're doing with it say Mark Christy for example and the difference wouldn't be so great or noticeable. I enjoy flying fbl I can set a model up how I want it to feel and I like the locked in feel on the stick.

[pgkevet]

FBL also allows manufacturers to knock out cheap but overpriced airframes with less need for any adjustments ..??
I'm sure someone is going to bring out the fancy adjustable fbl head - just for a new fiddle-wrinkle: a choice of 2 positions outboard on the grip arm and inner swash ball length variations.
Heli designs has really simplified with the (thank heavens) loss of crown gears, the loss of bell-hilier adjustment and the simplified open tail box. All power to the goblin for it's tail.
Perhaps the next evolution will be the wiring loom and all the electronics with sockets instead of leads followed by the ultimate earthed airframe and digital signal with power down one lead....

[Mike Sanders]

Complete fly by wire will be the thing. The electronics will make the heli what you want it to be. It will be a 3d machine or it will hover like a co-axial. It will be interesting to see what the A test examiners think about the latter. No artificial assistance is allowed for the test, except a gyro if it is flybarred. If fbl is used it must have the same effect as a flybarred machine. How will they be able to monitor that?

[Jez N]

Grumble grumble.......mp3 is rubbish, thought i had seen it all when compact discs became all the rage, nothing is quite as good a listening experience as vinyl.........

Grumble grumble.......nothing quite like the smell of a real steam engine, the smell of coal and steam. Beeching has a lot to answer for bringing in these new fangled diesel trains

Grumble grumble.......ahhh the glow of a proper wax candle, glowing glass bulbs, never take off!

Grumble grumble.......gun powder, lead shot? Hmm i prefer the feel of a weighty sword in my hand

Grumble grumble.......Fire, who needs fire. I prefer steak tartare, you can keep your fire

Grumble grumble.......4 legs good, 2 legs bad, 4 legs good, 2 legs bad.........



Wonder where we would all be now if it weren;t for progress?

[waveydavey]

Complete fly by wire will be the thing. The electronics will make the heli what you want it to be. It will be a 3d machine or it will hover like a co-axial. It will be interesting to see what the A test examiners think about the latter. No artificial assistance is allowed for the test, except a gyro if it is flybarred. If fbl is used it must have the same effect as a flybarred machine. How will they be able to monitor that?

Already done, old news

[waveydavey]

Complete fly by wire will be the thing. The electronics will make the heli what you want it to be. It will be a 3d machine or it will hover like a co-axial. It will be interesting to see what the A test examiners think about the latter. No artificial assistance is allowed for the test, except a gyro if it is flybarred. If fbl is used it must have the same effect as a flybarred machine. How will they be able to monitor that?

Okay using that rationale if its so easy that an fbl unit flys the model for you take a complete beginner, explain the rudiments of control and get them to take their A Cert, I don't think so Mr Saunders.

I think we're losing the plot here, fbl has been around for around 10 years, it's only in the last couple of years that it's become the norm for many of the reasons above. You still have to fly the damned thing, you still have to be able to react to different orientations, you still have to learn hand eye co-ordination to a fine degree. What does it matter that a box of electronics emulates a sticky out thing that you can tune the flight characteristics to your liking in any way you see fit, nose in is still nose in

[Mike Sanders]

Well, if Stanford university can program a heli to do that lot, they can they can program one to do hovers for 5 metres each way then do two 25 metres lazy eights, hover over the centre point back to the T and L point and land. I could pass the A without having the TX switched on. I could make a good display of moving the sticks.