Do you still use a flybarred heli Yes/no

[Markb1985]

Is it much harder if there no paddles

[waveydavey]

Interesting point you make about the class of pilot. I remember Duncan with the original 600 which flies like a damp sock in my opinion flying a routine which you can find on the 3dx site pirouetting for the whole of it. Stunning to watch, I also remember an interview where he states his favourite Heli is the original 600 which he still flies. I think an Fbl unit does give a class 3 pilot like myself the confidence to concentrate on the manoeuvre and not fight a wayward flying bowl of custard like the 600 with paddles.

[milly0812]

Do you still use a flybarred heli Yes/no

Where do these 'classes' come from ?

[waveydavey]

I think it's a loose attempt at grading pilots so class 1 would be Duncan etc class 2 would be your very able inter and class 3 well that would be me or maybe not even class 3

[milly0812]

Do you still use a flybarred heli Yes/no

Did you just make that up

[waveydavey]

Yeah course I did I'm class 1 really.

[waveydavey]

I think Pjk was just trying to suggest a level for pilots and that was my interpretation

[Markb1985]

Is ther a lot of difference between fly bar or not !??

[Jez N]

Is ther a lot of difference between fly bar or not !??

yes there is quite a lot of difference between FB & FBL, although either when set up well flies great and likewise when set up badly flies awfully. For me the most noticeable difference was that I wasn't constantly correcting for the effects of the wind and phasing issues. Going into a move you feel confident it will be orientated on exit rather than constantly correcting and hoping it didn't come out sideways! For that reason I would say I have progressed faster as I have more confidence! I only have the raptor 30 left as FB but haven't flown that in years and certainly wouldn't consider a FB machine now. Vortex vbar or beastx for me

for people wondering about the cost of converting a 450 size especially if wanting to get out in stronger winds I would encourage them to take the plunge. I fly mostly 450 size helis due to time/site limitations and personally feel the improved stability in the wind is a massive bonus to how often I can get out. I fly them in anything I would fly my logo in.

[trillian]

Is ther a lot of difference between fly bar or not !??

It depends a lot on how the particular flybarred heli in question is setup.

Example 1. In a typical 3D type setup the flybarred head would usually have light paddles and a steeper flybar ratio (the flybar having less authority so that the emphasis is on fast cyclics, so for example the flybar might move 10 degrees and transmit only 7 degrees movement to the blades) and hard dampers. So when flying a heli setup this way, it will feel very responsive and quick but will be difficult to hold a steady hover in windy conditions because the flybar will be very responsive and will be providing less stability.

Example 2. On a heli that is setup for F3C or scale type flying the head will be set for a shorter flybar ratio (the flybar movement is closer to a one-to-one ratio with the deflection of the blades) and will be using heavier paddles and often will have softer dampers. In this type of setup the hover is super stable even in gusty winds but the cyclics will be slower.

So with FBL, in example 1 above the difference will be huge, you will be able to dail in as fast cyclic response as you like but you won't sacrifice stability in the hover.
For example 2, converting to FBL may not imediately feel massively different because you'll already be used to a really stable hover but now you can also have much faster cyclics without lots of tweaking of paddles and dampers and flybar lengths etc.

As Jez N mentioned, FBL tend to hold its position better in aero moves, so the heli stays where you leave it or continues to track straight without as much correction needed. I think this feature of FBL is gonna be most noticeable on smaller helis and helis that were setup for fast 3D in flybarred form. For a big heli with an F3C style setup it will already track straight and stay put. So for me personally going FBL helped my Trex 500 and makes it just a wee bit more useful for practising big air moves but my bigger ones kinda don't need any help and they already do that stuff really well (but I spent a lot of time and effort dailing in the flybars, trying paddles and dampers and different blades etc. to arrive at just the right balance)

[p4ddy]

I remember Duncan with the original 600 which flies like a damp sock in my opinion flying a routine which you can find on the 3dx site pirouetting for the whole of it. Stunning to watch, I also remember an interview where he states his favourite Heli is the original 600 which he still flies.

That routine comes on the disc with a CSM gyro too (you remember CSM gyro's don't you?? It was using the SL720) lol Also Me, Laurence & another matey was talking to Wayne at Grass Roots last year & he said that to us about the 600. I still like the original trex 600E V1

[p4ddy]

yes there is quite a lot of difference between FB & FBL, although either when set up well flies great and likewise when set up badly flies awfully. For me the most noticeable difference was that I wasn't constantly correcting for the effects of the wind and phasing issues. Going into a move you feel confident it will be orientated on exit rather than constantly correcting and hoping it didn't come out sideways! For that reason I would say I have progressed faster as I have more confidence! I only have the raptor 30 left as FB but haven't flown that in years and certainly wouldn't consider a FB machine now. Vortex vbar or beastx for me

for people wondering about the cost of converting a 450 size especially if wanting to get out in stronger winds I would encourage them to take the plunge. I fly mostly 450 size helis due to time/site limitations and personally feel the improved stability in the wind is a massive bonus to how often I can get out. I fly them in anything I would fly my logo in.

I flew my 450 in 45-50mph gusts once.....I took off & it was 'hands free' 3d & it landed about 60ft to the side of me.

[pgkevet]

I think it's a loose attempt at grading pilots so class 1 would be Duncan etc class 2 would be your very able inter and class 3 well that would be me or maybe not even class 3

I thought it as pretty intuitive.. where you are i cannot guess..but in such a classification I;d put the masters at the top: the duncan's if you like, then class 2 would be the up and coming masters of the future, class 3 would be the good fliers who have cracked most moves albeit a bit ragged and stay at that level.. class 4 the able sports fliers and the ragged class 2's of the future and so on...

[p4ddy]

Talking of Duncan & the 600, this is still my all time favourite flight to music & it's with the 600E. Sounds sooo under powered but still delivered the goods on 6s.......... rrTV Video

[rachel]

FBL ,................................................. ..
It's a lot of money to spend trying to get a model to fly as well as one with a flybar