More Castle Creations Re-Calls!!!

[Mark_T]

Hey.

The way I've understood the problem, after someone took apart their 120HV and fixed it themselves, is that while the components are of good quality (better than other ESC makers it's claimed) the gate controller chip is just too far away from the FET's. I think a PCB track length of 5cm was mentioned.
Apart from the obvious fix of moving components to fix the problem, another option was to use lesser quality FET's.

There actually seem to be two problems, one was a change in the tolerance of the driver chip itself, they found that one started the recall process and began returning V3 devices, then this track length issued was pointed out to them and they stopped the V3 returns, recalled those and the other devices and are producing redesigned boards for the Ice 2 HV devices.

[scallybert]

From what I've read by PDC & others, I was under the impression that the 'good' driver chips worked fine with the track lengths. [Though that doesn't explain why V3 controllers failed. Perhaps they had problems ensuring that only 'good' driver chips were fitted to the V3s.]

I had the impression that the new control board, which incorporates new, custom-designed driver chips, had been under development for some time to enable better, more powerful controllers to be made. Since it didn't use the 'problem' driver chip, rolling it out now fixed the problems associated with that chip.

[Mark_T]

From what I've read by PDC & others, I was under the impression that the 'good' driver chips worked fine with the track lengths. [Though that doesn't explain why V3 controllers failed. Perhaps they had problems ensuring that only 'good' driver chips were fitted to the V3s.]

I had the impression that the new control board, which incorporates new, custom-designed driver chips, had been under development for some time to enable better, more powerful controllers to be made. Since it didn't use the 'problem' driver chip, rolling it out now fixed the problems associated with that chip.

I think it is getting hard to follow what has changed each time

Net result seems to be that they are manufacturing new boards for this recall and the update just involves removing the old board and adding the new one.

[scallybert]

I think it is getting hard to follow what has changed each time

Net result seems to be that they are manufacturing new boards for this recall and the update just involves removing the old board and adding the new one.

I suspect the former is what CC were finding - hence they've gone for the latter...

[Mark_T]

Came across this new snippet of information from PdC :

"Please be aware that we have tested the older Phoenix boards and they do not suffer from the same issue as the ICE boards. The issue occurs because of the long trace paths to the "C" phase high side MOSFETs on the power board. There is an induced negative current spike during the turn-off of the high side MOSFETs due to the inductance of the source trace.

The original Phoenix power board design has a very short trace to the driver, so it does not induce a negative current spike on the source pin of the driver."

Looks like the guys who designed the old boards knew what they were doing, but whoever designed the ICE boards had their eye off the ball at the time.

[scallybert]

Looks like the guys who designed the old boards knew what they were doing, but whoever designed the ICE boards had their eye off the ball at the time.

That depends on whether you see having a long track from driver to MOSFET as a design flaw, or merely undesirable.

From what I've seen, they had reasons for the long tracks on the ICE HV, and it (I believe) was fine with the 'in spec' driver chips. The long tracks became a problem when the driver chips went out of spec.

So, the long track design wasn't in itself a problem; it became one when the driver chip manufacturer messed up.

AIUI, the long track is so that the driver chip can be on the control board (rather than on the power board with the MOSFETs). Since the ICE 2 controllers (presumably) use the same power boards, they must also have the long tracks - but have a much better driver chip.

It's not obvious to me why they want the driver chip on the control board (rather than on...), but it's been suggested that it improves modularity - leading to better, cheaper products. ie a 160HV is the same design as a 120HV, but with more MOSFETs on the power board. ie a simple design change to the power board.

[Mark_T]

This may be of some concern to those using the Belgian address for returns.

It is a reply from PdC to a question about how long it would take to get an ESC back if it was sent to Belgium:

"It will be quicker if you send it to the USA, 1-3 day turnaround once we receive it."

Given they now seem to be swapping boards rather than entire units I wonder if Belgium is even set up for this yet?

Edit: Actually they may still be sending out 'new' units, I just reread the post about the update process and of course they may be referring to updating the units they prepared for the first recall rather than updating end user units directly.

[Si_B]

Well, mines just gone off to Belgium today, so will report back how long it takes to come back. My 600e will just have to sit on the shelf looking pretty.

[happyflyer]

Yeap....

Not a happy Bunny. Costing over £750 plus batteries. A very expensive heli just sitting around waiting to be repaired.

[madgooner99]

This may be of some concern to those using the Belgian address for returns.

It is a reply from PdC to a question about how long it would take to get an ESC back if it was sent to Belgium:

"It will be quicker if you send it to the USA, 1-3 day turnaround once we receive it."

Given they now seem to be swapping boards rather than entire units I wonder if Belgium is even set up for this yet?

Edit: Actually they may still be sending out 'new' units, I just reread the post about the update process and of course they may be referring to updating the units they prepared for the first recall rather than updating end user units directly.

Sent my returned unfixxed HV 120 V3 back to USA today due to this post from Patrick indicating the Belguim repair center is ???????.

So im £25 down due to sending the controller to the USA twice, i'm not too miffed about that but the 700's been unflyable sinve 20th July which does **** me off

Ray

[millerman]

if any of you want to send your escs to the usa i can offer next day delivery pending customs clearence for £15 should mean the turnaround time is about a week or so getting it back

[Angelos]

Fusion50 with flamed polished plastics and smoked screen canopy!

We understand that you may not wish to return your controller. Those that have served you well are likely to continue doing so; however, controllers that you may have recently purchased should be assumed to be assembled with the problem components.

Emphasis should be on the word "likely" which means not necessarily and this is what happened to my ICE ESC today nearly taking the only working Spartan FBL prototype with it.

My ESC was purchased late November in anticipation of the Fusion 50 release. It wasn't used much until recently when we did over 20 or so flights on the Fusion testing the FBL. This evening whilst showing the FBL to a friend the ESC caught fire. Luckily the flames died just before the rotor spooled down whilst we hopelessly waited to see what happens. Everything under the canopy has a coating of thick smoke with minimal damage to the plastics and a deformed canopy.

Oh well, at least CC are sorting things out now but I can't wait until the ICE2 comes out. I have to carry on with my work and a Scorpion or a Kontronic seems a likely choice.

-Angelos

[Jamin_00]

Angelos, do you have another ESC to hand so you can carry on testing the Spartan FBL unit??


I have a spare Kontronik 80 or 120HV sitting here you may borrow if you wish, dont want this unit to be delayed because of a Cremations product!

[xygax]

Angelos:
Use a seperate bec and make an opto to keep isolation between speed controller and your electronics ... That way if somthing cremates you dont get 48v up the prototypes....

Steve

[raptorheli2]

steve-these are opto esc's buddy hence the burnt lipo infront of the esc:-)

what bothers me now is my esc was from same place as me/angelos bought them at same time so they have to be same batch-ish.

i better send mine back then.

cheers