3d masters in spain

[StuSmith]

I was spose to be in the intermediate class at 3d champs but changed to the champions group 2 weeks before. Before 3d champs i had only ever done clubman 3d and i managed to come 4th in champions. So in my case Craig i see where you are coming from as if i had stayed in the lower class i wouldn't have been able to fly against champions pilots. In steffans case it would be silly for him to go in the lower group as he won clubman 3d, and 3d champ intermediate class had alot of the clubman pilots in so he has already proved himself capable to fly in the higher group imo. I guess it is up to Rob and Mike to decide on grouping though as it is there competition which they put alot of time into organising.

[StuSmith]

I read the start of you post wrong Craig but I think even if that was the situation you have competition experience yourself and know the standards for each group so it would be upto you i guess if you would decide to go for the win in intermediates or try the champions class. I wouldn't be worried myslef but i expect a few people in intermediates group would have been a bit peeved if steffan was in with them at his standard of flying.

[simm0]

hi stu..i wouldnt dare put stefan in intermediate class..after winning clubman..but im saying if stefan didnt enter clubman 2008 he could have entered 3d champs 2009 intermediate class and he was quite good at clubman but if he didnt enter clubman he could have entererd the champs inter class and that would make the standard really high in that group(like you nearly did matey)just like you mentioned if you would have entered that class the standard would be higher.so is there anything that can be done..i fear there isnt to be honest
as mentioned it doesnt matter to you and stefan but im just debating this subjectwith interest
cheers craig simmons

[robgt]

Good discussion guys!
I just thought I'd post to fill in some blanks over the decisions Mike and I had to make for 3D Championship.

When we first talked about doing this we wanted to get a "leaderboard" for the UK set up, but it proved very difficult to accomplish for several reasons. The main one being that the gap between the top pilot and the last placed pilot is too great in skill level meaning the judges would have to:
A) remember all the 40+ flights
b) would have difficulty scoring the middle section of flights
c) if you normalise the scores then the lower pilots would end up with really low scores
compared to the top pilot with 1000

The last thing we want is to put people off competing, as has been said a few times here, it's not just about being better than someone else (Richie, Mike, stop it! ) - it's a community thing, a friendship thing and above all, a helicopter thing!

So what we ended up with was the two group system.

This meant that those competing in the lower group still have a set of trophies to fight for agains their peers.

We dont have any prizes for winning - just the trophies. This also helps to encourage pilots to compete in the correct class.

Everyone gets a trophy of some sort! (and a fleece )

You only make yourself look daft if you compete in a group lower than you know (and possibly your peers know) you're capable of. This would show up on the scorecard and it simply wasn't an issue, which shows that people generally are fair minded about these things.

Mike and I also contacted Jeff regarding a couple of changes that we would like to see, one to the 3DX Set Manoeuvres round - much like the XFC do it, i.e. put four set manoeuvres into a freestyle flight and judge the sets and the overall flight appearance together. The idea being to make it better/more entertaining for pilots, judges and spectators. (Standard set manoeuvres rounds are boring!!) - the other being normalised scores.

The ideas seemed well received but we haven't yet had a full response to those suggestions yet.

Cheers,
Rob

[simm0]

nice to see your reply rob.thanks for that mate
cheers craig simmons

[wildpalms]

I've been looking at the way the GBRCAA run fixed wing aerobatics comps and whilst it may be overcomplicated for helis the principles make some sense.

They have five classes, each judged to the same high idea of perfection but the classes get progressively harder in terms of the manoeuvres.

It appears you can start in any class you wish. Obviously not one beneath your abilities but certainly not on too far above. Being capable of a rolling loop probably helps if that is in your schedule.

Promotion is achieved by gaining a promotion score (a fraction of the max). No winner takes all. If you are good enough then you can rise through the ranks.

Five classes is way too many for 3D helis though.

Not sure what would happen if your standard falls, one would hope that demotion would occur over a period of time or be self inflicted.

Flying in a mixed class must intimidating as for one thing your score will look so low compared to the very best which would be very demoralising.

Whatever happens you need to cater for those who want to fly against similar skills as well as allowing those who are or think they are good enough to pit there skills agains the giants.

[barney]

Rob, equally good info from your side of the fence as an organisor.

.

When we first talked about doing this we wanted to get a "leaderboard" for the UK set up, but it proved very difficult to accomplish for several reasons. The main one being that the gap between the top pilot and the last placed pilot is too great in skill level meaning the judges would have to:
A) remember all the 40+ flights
b) would have difficulty scoring the middle section of flights
c) if you normalise the scores then the lower pilots would end up with really low scores
compared to the top pilot with 1000

Can you give any more info concerning the ideas you have, for example do the 4 Sets moves is it to Music, Is there still a Music Round..etc.

Nigel Fraser Kerr..Russ D, Paul etc..It would be good to have their input on what they think is a good way forward.
Now is as good a time as any since 3DM has moved. Also how does this effect the 3DX format from here on in.

Stu..remember at 3DC I tipped you for better things having watched you fly. Look forward to seeing you compete next year.

My own target for 2009 is more conservative. Will be trying Champions class, and TBH expect to be propping the rest of the group up. Out of the bottom 3 would be nice though.
At 50 next year, things start to happen a little slower...and toilets need to be closer, but the drive and commitment is there if nothing else.

[robgt]

Not to music Brian, no. Just a freestyle flight that is planned to incorporate four set manoeuvres from the published list.
Basically, dropping the 5th set manoeuvre and replacing it with a score for the overall flight appearance.

Normalising the scores will also have the effect of giving the set manoeuvres round less weighting in the overall scores - currently it is WAY too heavily weighted around the set manoeuvres round, and we want a more level playing field and overall sets and freestyle skills to win through.

What we're thinking currently is still having three rounds as per this year, but updating the set manoeuvres round as above - the rest remains the same (with score normalisation).

Cheers,
Rob

[simm0]

i think a change would be good.and a move in a positive direction
go for it
craig simmons

[simm0]

any new stuart on an event etc..or anything at all
cheers craig