Do you really need to start off with a 600+ size heli?

[bladeboy400]

started with a blade 400 cheap batteries and cheap to repair, did not fly near the sea though, i had not had a 500 size but people that have had said they are a nice and can deal with with the wind quite a lot better than the 450 size. also a little cheaper on parts, if you do go 600 route get the club members to help by buddy leads etc to get your confidence up this is a large model and seem formidable when you first start this size, happy flying j

[BavarianRob]

Do you really need to start off with a 600+ size heli?

Go at your own pace. Trust your instincts, and don't be pushed into something you feel isn't right for you.

Isn't that what Obi Wan Kenobi said to Luke?

[bigpops]

You can learn on any size heli.

I learnt to hover on a Walkera 4#3 fixed pitch, which was probably the smallest single rotor heli you could get at the time, and I learnt in my living room. I didn't break the heli, or anything in the room, and as soon as I could hover that, I built a 450 and hovered that straight away never having put training gear on it. It was childs play compared to the little 4#3.

I've seen people at our club start with a 450, and I've seen them start with a Trex 600 nitro.

If you are going to go the 600 route, you really need to know that the hobby is for you, otherwise it's a hell of an outlay to get the thing in the air only to crash it, get discouraged and sell it all for a massive loss.
If you know you'll stick it out, then a Trex 600 is probably the most common model at heli clubs across the land and is capable of going from mild to wild.

[AcidDrink]

No need to start with a big one. I've learned to fly on 250 (flybar) and sim. Worked very well for me. Few jokes about not being able to see my flying at the field, but all in good manner

[electricsceadu]

the best heli to learn on is a large model with a big disc (blade size) as they are stable
but will be expensive to crash

the most suitable heli will be a smaller less expensive one
when i started flying the small electrics wasn't an option, you had a 30 size nitro
these days it would be either a raptor 30 or a 50/600 size model ie trex 600

but with the smaller electric models it is a good start to the hobby
the co-axail models are great for learning the correct inputs needed
the fixed pitch is a step further on
and then the 400/450 size collective pitch is the next step onwards
you don't need to have every size of small model
a simulator is a wise investment and learn the control inputs etc with a none cost crash as reset in the sim costs nothing
then take what you've learnt on to your model


if the location that you will be flying is very windy then you will find a 400/450 hard work
if the wind isn't too bad then i see no reason not to go this route
the plus points are
cheap spares
cheap batteries ,so you can buy more and have a longer flying period without having to wait until the battery is charged
can be flown in a larger indoor area and outdoors

the downside is
less stable in wind than a larger heli
harder to see if you travel further out that a bigger model
not bucket sized hand friendly to work on


i would advise to fly at a club for the advice you will get and that the model can me checked to see if it is set up right
as flying on your own you won't know if it's set correctly or not

[gorber]

I don't think their advice was wrong. I started on a blade 400 and it was expensive because the first 5 or 6 flights all ended in crashes. As soon as I could hover without crashing I went on to 600n and it was much, much easier to fly. The difference in crash costs is not typically the £100-£200 vs £30 that someone quoted above. I have crashed my 600 maybe 4 or 5 times and it has only cost me over £100 once. Every time I crashed my Trex 450 it cost over £30 (the blades alone pretty much guarantee it) and sometimes in excess of double that.

If I had my time over, I would have started on the 600n, but that is only the case if you have the support of a club, otherwise it is way too dangerous. They are a lot more intimidating but much more stable.

The perfect size is probably a 500. They offer an excellent compromise because they are substantially more stable than a 400/450, but are nowhere near as intimidating as a 600, especially nitro.

At the end of the day, it is up to personal preference. Yours appears to be for the 400/450 route.

[sjm]

Again thanks for the responses.

I am on Phoenix a lot (ask Idleup, The Dark Passenger, Toolman and Garthx84)
This has made helped loads as I had the confidence to hover my 400 first time out.
I just feel I need to get out there flying (hence my trip out to find my local club),
But although the 3 blokes were friendly and chatty I felt like "I would be bringing a pen knife to a sword fight"

[tomatwalden]

Do you really need to start off with a 600+ size heli?

Again thanks for the responses.

I am on Phoenix a lot (ask Idleup, The Dark Passenger, Toolman and Garthx84)
This has made helped loads as I had the confidence to hover my 400 first time out.
I just feel I need to get out there flying (hence my trip out to find my local club),
But although the 3 blokes were friendly and chatty I felt like "I would be bringing a pen knife to a sword fight"

It doesn't matter. For ages, I took my 450x and 130x to my club and flew alongside the guys with Logo 600s, 7HVs, Align 600s etc. I was (and to a certain extent, still am) constantly ribbed about my "toys". Now I have some bigger machines, and my 550 is a lovely machine to fly. But I've progressed to it at my pace. Just be comfortable in your choice of helis - at the end of the day, it's your past time and your money. If its a good club, they'll be friendly and accept whatever heli you choose to fly, albeit maybe with a bit of mickey taking!

[BavarianRob]

Do you really need to start off with a 600+ size heli?

The perfect size is probably a 500. They offer an excellent compromise because they are substantially more stable than a 400/450, but are nowhere near as intimidating as a 600, especially nitro.

Excellent point, and still just within the limits of flying at your local playing field if there's no one about and you can get a new trex 500E for £350!

[p4ddy]

Like this?

[ATTACH]59426[/ATTACH]
Reply With Quote
Sorry, couldn't resist :-)

No, BBQ flavour as they weigh a tad more

[Zeeflyboy]

Do you really need to start off with a 600+ size heli?

It certainly always used to be the wisdom, but things have changed a bit.

Now you have sims, FBL heli's that make wind much easier to handle even on smaller heli's, and something no one would ever have seen coming 10-15 years ago - the mCPX and the like. A small full CP heli that you can crash and 9 times out of ten just pick it up and go flying again.

If you are flying in a club environment and receiving instruction, plus have the cash, then sure a 600 would be a great choice.

Outside of that environment I'd say its a bad choice in all honesty. It's big, intimidating, expensive to crash and frankly it's potentially deadly.... They are awesome too though lol.

If going it alone, get a sim and a 450 (or mCPX BL, or both) and get cracking.

[maddog7]

From your question and the following discussion two things seem apparent.

You don't want anything bigger than the 450 because the thought intimidates you. Most people would agree that flying bigger creates more nerves.

I'd say in that case buy a 450 for now, you can always sell it later.

The thing I notice most about the discussion is the lack of distinction between FB and FBL. Many 450 FB helis I have flown have been nervous, twitchy things that would probably hinder your progress by saturating your brain with fear. If you want to learn on a small heli IMHO is HAS to be FBL.

I think Tom's combo can not be bettered, a 130x for totally fear free real world flying- that little sucker can be flown easily in 10-15 mph winds (more if your Scotvar!) and if you fly over grass, many crashes can be recovered, righted and flown again immediately. Parts are cheap, the heli is very stable and flys much like a larger heli.
Use the 130x LOTS to internalise and make flying a stress free, enjoyable activity.

If you buy a blade 450, make sure you get the 450X (FBL), the Beastx is a stable controller by nature but can be dialled right down further to suit your level. You can pick one up ATM from Kings Lynn for very good money I believe.

Cheers
D

[Delarado]

I went:

2 ch coax (1 week, a few crashes)
Then added
120SR Fixed Pitch (2 weeks, 100's of crashes)
Then added
MCPX (6 weeks, 1,000,000 crashes)
Then added
500 EFL Pro (2 months, 5 crashes, £30-£120, average about £60)
Then added
450 from hobbyking for a laugh (Its crap, no real crashes to speak of)
then added
700E V2 (6 months, no crashes)
Then added
Goblin (about 4 months ownership now, no crashes)
Then added
700N DFC (about 3 months ownership now, 1 crash due to tail shaft failure in flight. £200 due to me being a tart and wanting everything perfect and shelling out £80 on a new canopy and £80 on fancy blades)
Then sold the 700EV2

I've only ever crashed a 700 once and that wasnt my fault (Tail shaft failure)

The 700s are a LOT easier to fly than the smaller ones. You get a lot more time in the air when your 3d'ing (they are heavier so have more "hang time" in manuevers)

There is a balance to be struck between crash costs and ease of repair. I dont think I'd be doing half the stuff I'm doing now if I had only ever flown a 450. However, I will say, my 500EFL pro is still nearly my favourite heli, and is capable of anything I can throw at it.

If I had to do it all again I wouldnt change my choice of the 500 EFL being my first "Big boys" heli. The 450s are great and all but they are quite skittish and small. When i first got the 500, I thought it was MASSIVE and it scared the crap out of me. I'd only fly it really far away from me and it was quite intimidating. Now I hover it inverted quite close to myself and the sound of the blades is quite laughable to be honest, it now feels really small and toy-like.

Nerves are the main thing that makes this hobby hard IMO. So try not to be afraid of the larger stuff, and itll reward you in the long run.

[one life fly it]

I went:

2 ch coax (1 week, a few crashes)
Then added
120SR Fixed Pitch (2 weeks, 100's of crashes)
Then added
MCPX (6 weeks, 1,000,000 crashes)
Then added
500 EFL Pro (2 months, 5 crashes, £30-£120, average about £60)
Then added
450 from hobbyking for a laugh (Its crap, no real crashes to speak of)
then added
700E V2 (6 months, no crashes)
Then added
Goblin (about 4 months ownership now, no crashes)
Then added
700N DFC (about 3 months ownership now, 1 crash due to tail shaft failure in flight. £200 due to me being a tart and wanting everything perfect and shelling out £80 on a new canopy and £80 on fancy blades)
Then sold the 700EV2

I've only ever crashed a 700 once and that wasnt my fault (Tail shaft failure)

The 700s are a LOT easier to fly than the smaller ones. You get a lot more time in the air when your 3d'ing (they are heavier so have more "hang time" in manuevers)

There is a balance to be struck between crash costs and ease of repair. I dont think I'd be doing half the stuff I'm doing now if I had only ever flown a 450. However, I will say, my 500EFL pro is still nearly my favourite heli, and is capable of anything I can throw at it.

If I had to do it all again I wouldnt change my choice of the 500 EFL being my first "Big boys" heli. The 450s are great and all but they are quite skittish and small. When i first got the 500, I thought it was MASSIVE and it scared the crap out of me. I'd only fly it really far away from me and it was quite intimidating. Now I hover it inverted quite close to myself and the sound of the blades is quite laughable to be honest, it now feels really small and toy-like.

Nerves are the main thing that makes this hobby hard IMO. So try not to be afraid of the larger stuff, and itll reward you in the long run.

Got to agree on the nerves thing , its really holding me back and I don't know how to get over it !
I absolutely bricked it yesterday at the fly in.

[sjm]

I already own a Nano CPX and a Blade 400
The Nano is flown indoors but to be honest the space is limited to hovering or small circles, but I'm confident with it.
The 400 has only be flown outside once (mainly due to wind, its been 15 - 20 mph most days, and i'm not confident in trying to fly it then)

I do feel confidence is an issue as I am doing stall turns, dodgy circuits and fig 8's and happy with flips and rolls on Phoenix. (hence wanting to join a club where my confidence can grow with HELP)
Currently on Phoenix I fly a raptor .30, T-rex 700E and been advised to try using a T-rex 500E and Logo 500 as there similar to a 400/450 (as the Blade 400/450 are not close enough to the real thing).

I was thinking about as 130x or 250 but was put off as some posts say there harder to fly outside than a 450 and if the wind is below 10 mph why not fly the 400.
I can't currently justify £350 + crash cost for a 500 when I have a 400 sat there (I understand a bigger heli is more stable, but I have flown my 400 once)
Another thought was to get a 500 kit and put all the electrics out of my 400 in it but again it's a trade off (bigger heli = bigger crash cost)

My Blade 400 has a Futaba GY401 gyro, Hyperion DS11-GCB tail servo, Hitec HS-65HB cyclic servos and a 420 motor so its previous owner tweaked it.