Total G Review

[Janek]

I read the rules. We are working for the best solution for people that want the low throttle fail safe.

For general information, when you are running external receivers their failsafe will work with the Total G just like they always do.

And in a Total G with Spektrum satellites, the Satellites are the receiver, the Total G is not. The Total G is a servo bus. The Satellites are the receiver and they do not have a throttle low failsafe. So according to the rules, this receiver does not have a setable failsafe. So it does not have to be set to throttle low. So you are still legal to use it as it is. The Total G will hold in the last position it is given, so it has a built in hold.

Now I know for those of you that want the throttle low, as a fail safe on your machine this does not help. But technically this system is legal today under those rules. Having said that we are going to have a solution for those of you that want the throttle low failsafe.

Personally I went away from throttle low failsafes years ago, because I had the "going to low throttle" cause several crashes that would not have happened if the throttle had gone to hold instead. But I can see why people would want the throttle low option.

Curtis, not sure you're correct about Spectrum Rx's, because they do have a throttle failsafe, the bind process sets the throttle failsafe to the position of the throttle stick when the units are bound.

I haven't check this since installing the TotalG, but it certainly worked that way before. I'll test that at my next opportunity.

[Janek]

Worrying !

I just tested my Trex600N, that has TotalG, with 3 Spectrum satellites installed, which was bound in the normal way, i.e. with the throttle stick fully down. and I can confirm that the throttle DOES NOT go to idle.

I powered on the Tx on, followed by the Heli, I waited until the TotalG initialised, then put about half throttle/pitch in and stitched off the Tx (to simulate failsafe). The throttle, and all other channels held their last position. When I switched on the Tx again, with the sticks at the same position, the servos stayed where they were, when I moved the sticks, the servos moved normally.

This DOES NOT conform to the normal spectrum throttle failsafe performance of a Spectrum Rx. When doing the same test, with a Spectrum Rx, the throttle returns to the idle position, i.e. where the throttle stick was during binding.

Curtis, you might need to look into this urgently.

[robgt]

Janek,
As Curtis said, the satellites (alone) do not have the failsafe option. only the main receiver unit does.

Curtis,
I think a misunderstanding (miswording?) is going on here?
You mention throttle hold position as a failsafe, which is what (I suspect) everyone here actually means when they say low throttle failsafe.

Cheers,
Rob

[Stuart]

V5 on the V Bar takes the throttle position during binding when using the satellites as your failsafe position much like the fullsize spektrum Rx`s do,the original V4 software did not and drove the servo one particular way for throttle,if it was the wrong way you had two options.
A Live with it or use separate rx
B Move the ball to the other side of the throttle servo horn so it would now close throttle or use a different servo ie if Futaba use JR or vice versa.

As far as i am aware now there is a V4 update to solve this so they are both throttle to predetermined position,hold all other channels.

I presume that's if your using the newer versions - mine is the black larger version NO wiring to the TH or remote RX's - so I'm happy with my Futaba Setup...

[Janek]

I think a misunderstanding (miswording?) is going on here?
You mention throttle hold position as a failsafe, which is what (I suspect) everyone here actually means when they say low throttle failsafe.

Rob, where's the confusion ?

In a failsafe situation, the TotalG unit, like the receivers it's supposed to replace, should, as a minimum, set the throttle channel to idle. in other words, it should fail SAFE.

Hopefully this is a simple oversight that can be rectified easily during the software update ?

[Kwickkwack]

Janek
Whilst this may be desirable, and indeed a personal requirement, it isnt a legal requirement for models under 7kg.
As a side note, I was seriously looking at this unit but having been made aware of the lack of a failsafe (which I want) I will choose not to purchase until this is fixed.

[Janek]

It wasn't me that raised the "legal" question, and to be honest I'm don't care, but I do very much care about the safety of myself and others, therefore I shall be re-installing a Spectrum Rx, that at least provides a throttle failsafe of sorts (see the separate thread on lost of power failsafes).

Hopefully Curtis can supply a solution for this oversight in the next software update.

[Smoothound]

Sorry but I'm with Janek here. I can't for my life see why any unit would be delivered to market that didn't Fail Safe? Whether it be for USA, UK or Asia? Anyone who wants the throttle to hold position when the Rx loses signal from the Tx in the hope of getting the signal back and saving a costly crash is seriously misguided!! Flying towards yourself and lose connection and the chopper goes over your head when you duck and straight into the pits or crowd full chat...no thanks

Let's hope it is easily sorted with a simple firmware upload

[jay916]

Whilst I agree about the points raised regarding the failsafe.

Flying towards yourself and lose connection and the chopper goes over your head when you duck and straight into the pits or crowd full chat...no thanks

Why would you want to fly a manoeuvre that put you or a crowd in that position anyway? Especially if there was a crowd behind you? What if something else failed in the model at that point?

Failsafes are just another way to make flying safer, not the only way.

Justin

[Smoothound]

Whilst I agree about the points raised regarding the failsafe.



Why would you want to fly a manoeuvre that put you or a crowd in that position anyway? Especially if there was a crowd behind you? What if something else failed in the model at that point?

Failsafes are just another way to make flying safer, not the only way.

Justin

Simply because people do. People don't just fly left to right/right to left!! If the machine is not connected to the Tx the throttle should cut irrespective of whether it's upside down, inside out or cost £10,000

Back when all you had was 35Mhz PPM you had a slight excuse but in this day and age no way!!

[Stuart]

Whilst the need for a failsafe over 7kg is under CAP658, in the BMFA handbook its clearely states.

(3) 2.4 GHz
Note that all 2.4 GHz equipment has a built in
failsafe function and that this must be set to your
requirements. Do not leave the equipment as it
came ‘out of the box’ as the failsafe will almost
certainly default to hold last position and not low
throttle.

Now I don't have the exact policy wording for there insurance cover and this isn't a debate on the merits of there or ours.

But I would suspect any serious incident that can be found not to be following any guidlines if set out by any association would put a flyer into a black hole in terms of cover.

Personally I always have my TH set to throttle hold i.e. idle in the event of loss of signal. I can understand the idea of comp pilots when the loss in only a few sec's will more than likely mean a crash due to the constant proximity to ground.

But I would much rather have a TH goto idle than have the potential to be left a full throttle as the last know position and shooting off in any direction, on a hold position at any height the heli will only end up in one place on the ground within a relatively close area from the lock out.

I'm sure Curtis will review the firmware and offer a suitable solution.

[robgt]

Rob, where's the confusion ?

Curtis said:

And in a Total G with Spektrum satellites, the Satellites are the receiver, the Total G is not. The Total G is a servo bus. The Satellites are the receiver and they do not have a throttle low failsafe

You then said:

Curtis, not sure you're correct about Spectrum Rx's, because they do have a throttle failsafe, the bind process sets the throttle failsafe to the position of the throttle stick when the units are bound

Curtis clearly knows the main receiver unit has a failsafe - but here he only talked about the satellites.

I just read a few posts that maybe had not seen what Curtis had written, and were saying that failsafe did not work as expected (set to idle) when using satellites only - something Curtis had already pointed out.

Cheers,
Rob

[Janek]

Ah, but one of the TotalG's selling points is that it's a replacement for the Rx, Gyro, Govenor and FBL controller, which, in it's current form, it clearly isn't. You HAVE to run a separate Rx no matter what (not just satellites), if you want a working failsafe

No confusion here !

Oh, and there's a serious disadvantage of using an external Rx......according to the "instructions" you have to run the power supply to the Rx first, then into the TotalG, via 2 external Rx ports, these 2 ports can ONLY be run at 5.5volts, therefore all your servo's also have to run at 5.5v maximum. Yet when you power the TotalG via it's own power port, it's safe to 10v, go figure !

On a positive note (I'm not well known for those ), my last flight on Sunday, using the TotalG, did bring a smile to my face

[robgt]

I'm planning (currently) on running mine at 5.2 volts (via the Gryphon regulator) with an external receiver so that I have a throttle failsafe.
I don't see why it's a serious disadvantage though - I guess I will find out soon enough if the Spektrum 6040 cyclic servos let me down at this low voltage, lol
I'm sure the BLS254 tail servo will cope though.
Cheers,
Rob

[dav20043]

Ah, but one of the TotalG's selling points is that it's a replacement for the Rx, Gyro, Govenor and FBL controller, which, in it's current form, it clearly isn't. You HAVE to run a separate Rx no matter what (not just satellites), if you want a working failsafe

No confusion here !

Oh, and there's a serious disadvantage of using an external Rx......according to the "instructions" you have to run the power supply to the Rx first, then into the TotalG, via 2 external Rx ports, these 2 ports can ONLY be run at 5.5volts, therefore all your servo's also have to run at 5.5v maximum. Yet when you power the TotalG via it's own power port, it's safe to 10v, go figure !

On a positive note (I'm not well known for those ), my last flight on Sunday, using the TotalG, did bring a smile to my face

you have that wrong the ext ports can only have a a max of 5.5v as they are signal wires only you still power it from the other plugs which is the same as when you use it as a reciever with satelites