Phasing.. I think...

[Eckchaz]

No b1tching thread .. I need some advice.. I finally got out after 3 weeks and because i'm pushing to perfect moves as I dont fly often, I'm getting annoyed with the 600, as its not behaving right

The heli tends to have a slight right side roll on hard collective pumps.. and more noticable on rainbows, I think I'm having phasing issues (if thats right?) Been reading and it says I can do swash mix's at less than 10% to sort this or move the phasing ring? This is all german to me and could someone tell me if I'm right about the phasing and how to sort it? Also, Its on a 600 Beast-X.. could it be me or the settings on it but I know the heli is 100% machanically set up (until someone states pilot error, lol!)

Thanks

[callum]

Sounds more like a interaction more then phasing.

Phasing is the relationship between Aileron and Elevator and the timing, aswell as lead and lag of the blade.. Try a back/front flip and side on roll.. If screwiffs during a flip and not straight, then its most likely phasing.

Rolling you will see the tail droop down and up (I think)

Flybarless usually corrects this..

On a Flybar we either usually create a mix to counter it.. or we can use some device like a Cyclock 1, Other factors contribute to phasing, Including what blades are used etc.

Some helicopters (Like the compass) have a adjustable phasing ring so that you can advance or retard the phase a few degrees.

[rachel]

very interesting thread

As my flying has got better I have noticed that when i do big manuvers the heli seems too screw out allways the same way its very odd but i have got used to it .

However I flew an identical 700 rex on sunday and it was soooooo much easier to fly than mine it just flipped straight.

I too think it's a phasing thing .

anyone any input ????
thanks x Rachel

[waveydavey]

Won't be phasing Eddie. Add a little left trim on parameter setting B and try that. Theres a bit in the Beast manual about it. The only way you will have phasing issues with the Beast is if you haven't mounted it in line with the frame, IE if you had mounted it at 45 degrees say.

[callum]

very interesting thread

As my flying has got better I have noticed that when i do big manuvers the heli seems too screw out allways the same way its very odd but i have got used to it .

However I flew an identical 700 rex on sunday and it was soooooo much easier to fly than mine it just flipped straight.

I too think it's a phasing thing .

anyone any input ????
thanks x Rachel

Sounds like phasing

The reason why the other 700 might have been better is either using different blades, or the person has mixed it out.

[Eckchaz]

Won't be phasing Eddie. Add a little left trim on parameter setting B and try that. Theres a bit in the Beast manual about it. The only way you will have phasing issues with the Beast is if you haven't mounted it in line with the frame, IE if you had mounted it at 45 degrees say.

Cheers Dave.. looks like it was user error! lol! Do you mean parameter A? As B is control behaviour? Also if I'm giving it a little left trim.. then surely i'm not having a 90 Deg swash for 90% of the other stuff and have to counter that with input all the time?.. I think I need to read through the manual.

Callum.. flips and rolls are true.. its just the hard pumping stuff, it screws slightly.. so whats the interaction?

[waveydavey]

Doh, I did mean A. You'll probably find that the swash and where the Beast is mounted isn't parallel. Interaction is the if your adding say roll cyclic you get a bit of elevator at the same time. It's difficult to get rid of completely but you shouldn't have this problem with fbl.

[Eckchaz]

Cool.. i'll get onto it then Dave.. I'll have a read through the manuall again about the issue!

Rachel I read this if it helps? http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/setup-...te-timing.html

[Eckchaz]

oooh.. just another thought.. would it be down to the soft mounting pad causing this?

[rachel]

Sounds like phasing

The reason why the other 700 might have been better is either using different blades, or the person has mixed it out.

Our 700 are identical I even have his tx setup the only differances are the gyro and tail servo
Mine has a Quack and a MKS BLS 980

His has a CSM 720 & a Futaba BLS251

Oh mine has a pink canopy too

seriously his heli is nicer to fly than mine so how do i check & adjust the phasing ???????????

Hey this is almost a sensible post

Hugs X Rach

[waveydavey]

The phasing is fixed on a 700 as it is on the 600, flybared versions. You would change it by rotating the collar that normally holds the washout base and anti rotation pins either left or right. This has the effect of changing the timing of the input to the paddles, either earlier or later.

Thats where the mixing comes into it, adding a little bit of whatever input you need in order to stop the interaction. Or go flybarless, or buy a cyclock.

[Rotorhead]

Our 700 are identical I even have his tx setup the only differances are the gyro and tail servo
Mine has a Quack and a MKS BLS 980

His has a CSM 720 & a Futaba BLS251

Oh mine has a pink canopy too

seriously his heli is nicer to fly than mine so how do i check & adjust the phasing ???????????

Hey this is almost a sensible post

Hugs X Rach

On the 700 (all align helis AFAIK) you cant adjust it mechanically, you have to add a mix into the transmitter so that when you pull the stick back it also introduces some roll.

My 700's phasing if not corrected would cause a slight left roll with back stick, so the heli would screw out to the left in a loop, so a little right cyclic was needed to correct it, you'll have to dial it in, but it should be no more than about 10% mix.

You should also do this for forward cyclic aswell, and also on the roll add a bit of back when you push left and forward when you push right, the % for forward and back should be the same, but the left and right may be a little different (though the same as each other) effectively you are rotating the orientation of the cyclic stick with these mixes.

[Steve]

If it's a phasing issue with a flybarless setup then you should look for the electronics settings to dial it out.

If it's a flybarred heli then nearly all of them suffer a little cyclic phasing issue. On some helis (Aurora, many Hirobos, Knights) this can be adjusted out mechanically, but on many others including the Align range and JR helis, it's easier just to do it with two cyclic mixes.

The phasing issue is a relationship between the two cyclic controls and not the collective/cyclic. For a normal clockwise rotating head, the two mixes you need are (you shouldn't need more than 10% mix at full stick deflection - usually 5-7% is enough):

Mix 1
Full Left aileron gives 5% Down Elevator
Full Right aileron gives 5% Up Elevator

Mix 2
Full Up Elevator gives 5% left aileron
Full Down Elevator gives 5% right aileron

So one mix is aileron to elevator and the other is elevator to aileron.

Before adding any mixes, you should be 100% confident that it isn't your thumbs that are causing the skewness - i.e. repeated practicing of certain moves to rule them out helps.

To check the elevator to aileron mix, hold the heli in a stationary hover and flip it right over back to upright. Look to see if the nose is still pointing in the same direction as before you started the flip. If it isn't, and your gyro hold is good then it's probably down to a phasing relationship. Adjusting the mix should get it right in the end. You can also check this mix by doing large fast loops - if the heli comes out at the bottom of the loop on a different heading to where it went in, then this could again be down to phasing, maybe.

To check the aileron to elevator mix, try some fast forwards rolls and look for corkscrewing of the tail boom through the roll. If it does and again your gyro settings are good then this might again be down to phasing. However, the same result can be achieved from a sloppy or poor quality tail mechanical setup.

As suggested, these kinds of results can also be caused by other setup issues other than phasing, so a good mechanical machine with a well setup gyro/tail is a must before messing about with phasing adjustments. Phasing will also be affected by choice of blades, paddles and head speed. The advantage of mechanical adjustment on those helis that are lucky enough to have an adjustable phasing ring is that this system of tweaking isn't head speed dependent, so once it's right there's one less thing to worry about in the mix.

If you're going to try some phasing mixes then be sure to apply the mix to an available switch so that you can turn them on and off in flight to test the differences/improvements.

Finally, a 5% mix between aileron and elevator can be very hard to see if it's going the right way at the swash plate on the bench, so set the values to say 25% just until you are happy that the mix is giving the right direction of swash adjustment and that your on/off switch is working, then drop all the mix values back to 5% for starters.

Happy twiddling.

[waveydavey]

Excellent post Steve

[Eckchaz]

Excellent post Steve

have to agree.. very informative!!