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  • Stephan Hawking in news

    So what do you think of Hawkings possible new theory.

    Quote
    " Hawking was reported to have written in his new book 'The Grand Design' that the laws of physics can create the universe out of nothing, it doesn't require God and that his previous use of the word "God" was merely rhetorical"
    Quote

    [URL="http://img148.imageshack.us/i/55119753.jpg/"][IMG]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4080/55119753.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

    What do you think of this, do you think Hawking is mis-using his status, maybe Stephen is talking sence or like me, really un certain but open to all views.
    To be honest this subject is so mind-boggling massive that would we be able to cope with the truth, that could possibly be only delayed by our small limited maybe disillusioned minds in the sence that would we even be able to comprehend the nature of space, the physics inside a black hole, the big bang etc.
    Should we even know the truth.

    Should I shut the $%*^ up because its still early lol :cheers2:


    What other people are saying:
    (Taken from [URL]http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/68149,news-comment,news-politics,what-theyre-saying-about-stephen-hawking-god-and-creation-universe[/URL])

    [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][B]WHAT THEY'RE SAYING:[/B]
    [URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1308599/Stephen-Hawking-wrong-You-explain-universe-God.html"][B]John Lennox[/B], professor of maths, Oxford University[/URL]: "The laws of physics can explain how the jet engine works, but someone had to build the thing, put in the fuel and start it up. The jet could not have been created without the laws of physics on their own - but the task of development and creation needed the genius of [Sir Frank] Whittle as its agent. Similarly, the laws of physics could never have actually built the universe. Some agency must have been involved."
    [URL="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/physics/article2712324.ece"][B]Dr Rowan Williams[/B], Archbishop of Canterbury:[/URL] "Belief in God is not about plugging a gap in explaining how one thing relates to another within the Universe. It is the belief that there is an intelligent, living agent on whose activity everything ultimately depends for its existence. Physics on its own will not settle the question of why there is something rather than nothing."
    [B]Roger Highfield[/B], the [URL="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19391-hawking-hasnt-changed-his-mind-about-god.html"][I]New Scientist[/I][/URL]: "Media furore over Stephen Hawking's new book, [I]The Grand Design[/I], has made it the biggest science news story of the day. But it's not like Hawking has suddenly given up a religious belief – let alone proved that God doesn't exist."
    [B]Graham Farmello[/B], [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7979211/Has-Stephen-Hawking-ended-the-God-debate.html"][I]Daily Telegraph[/I][/URL]: "The science-religion relationship, in so far as there is one, continues to be a crowd-pleaser. It seems to be a fundamental law of PR that the God-science debate is a sure-fire source of publicity. Always welcome when one has a book to sell."
    [B]Chief Rabbi Lord Sacks[/B]: "Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation... The Bible simply isn't interested in how the Universe came into being."
    [B]Professor Paul Davies[/B], cosmologist, University of Arizona: "The idea that before the Big Bang there was some big supernatural beast ready to light the touch paper? Nobody believed that anyway."
    [B]Ibrahim Mogra[/B], committee chairman at the Muslim Council of Britain: "If we look at the Universe and all that has been created, it indicates that somebody has been here to bring it into existence. That somebody is the almighty conqueror."
    [B]Richard Dawkins[/B], writer of the [I]God Delusion[/I]: "Darwinism kicked God out of biology but physics remained more uncertain. Hawking is now administering the coup de grace."
    [B]Stephen Hawking[/B], in 2001: "If you believe in science, like I do, you believe that there are certain laws that are always obeyed. If you like, you can say the laws are the work of God, but that is more a definition of God than a proof of his existence."
    [/COLOR][/LEFT]
    Last edited by MartinH; 04-09-2010, 11:28 AM.

  • #2
    I don't believe we will ever truly know the origins of the Universe. Some look to science for their answers and some look to God. Whichever way you chose to look requires an element of faith. Religion and God are based on the writings of people long since dead and our ability to have faith in the truth contained within those 'scriptures'. Science is based on the knowledge and writings of many that are dead and some that are still alive, however they are Man-made laws and rules to try and put meaning to phenomena and issues that we do not fully understand and as such you have to have 'faith' in the laws of science too.

    Me, I am happy to live my life knowing I have but 1 chance. I care about those close to me as that is all I can do, those outside my close circle are not of my concern by and large but I do like to trust in people and give everyone a chance. How we got here and where we will be in the future is irrelevant and not my problem but does make for some interesting discussions.
    Last edited by PsiLo; 04-09-2010, 11:40 AM.
    Gerd

    2 x for me

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    • #3
      We will never understand.

      Our minds will never be able to work it out. Why did it have to be created and not have just existed.

      We always have to find an explanation and some things are just beyond it!
      + 7 x Eddies finest EGS's


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      • #4
        My feeling is that both religion and science are man's way of attempting to interpret something we are likely just not intelligent enough to ever comprehend. People seem to think that there must be a reason for life and our being here and do not like the idea that we are just here for no real reason at all. They seem to think that life must be for greater reason.

        Life is short. On a personal note I am very anti religion and feel very privileged to be here. The chances of my birth were very slim, another sperm could have won the race at my conception, as can those of my parents and their parents before them. I am lucky to be here and when my time is up, well I had an experience that billions of others who could have been conceived never had. I am one very lucky human and appreciate my time, I have no need to wonder if there is a grand reason for my life or what might be when I am gone. Life is grand, look around yourself and enjoy every moment. It will never come again. Stop worrying about the before and after. Now is here today and the clock is ticking.....

        Andy
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        • #5
          Frankly if you believe in god then you are fitting the definition of being delusional (believing something is there when there is NO actual demonstratable real evidence (even to you no matter how much you pretend there is))

          When it comes to religion, I have the attitude that either prove your claims or shut up, I dont have to prove there isnt something, its up to them to prove there is, they're making the claim afterall, and so far I've not seen any evidence that doesnt come from a source that is its only source of verification (which boils down to this book is true because the book itself say it is) which really is juvenile and belongs in a playground along with "you are because you are" and "because I said so" not in mature rational reasoning.

          I was discussing this with a few friends a couple of weeks back, and its actually a bit scary that 90% of the world believe in god/s, because when you think about that that means 90% of the world are delusional, irrational and just plain nuts, which kind of explains a heck of a lot....

          Religion should come with a health warning, it rots your brain and your ethical standards.

          To paraphrase; the good would be good, the bad would be bad, but for the good to be bad it takes religion, never have truer words been uttered.

          Arguements between competing religions boil down to an arguement over who's invisible friend is better, and thats never going to end well considering the above, I wish they'd just pick a nice large deserted land mass somewhere and just have it out, perhaps with nukes and leave the rest of us (the 10% that arn't nuts) to get on with life, give it 50 years and we'd be living like we're on star trek or something without them holding us back (stem cell research as an example)
          Last edited by Rotorhead; 04-09-2010, 12:33 PM.
          Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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          • #6
            [quote=Rotorhead;527370]Frankly if you believe in god then you are fitting the definition of being delusional (believing something is there when there is NO actual demonstratable real evidence (even to you no matter how much you pretend there is))

            When it comes to religion, I have the attitude that either prove your claims or shut up, I dont have to prove there isnt something, its up to them to prove there is, they're making the claim afterall, and so far I've not seen any evidence that doesnt come from a source that is its only source of verification (which boils down to this book is true because the book itself say it is) which really is juvenile and belongs in a playground along with "you are because you are" and "because I said so" not in mature rational reasoning.

            I was discussing this with a few friends a couple of weeks back, and its actually a bit scary that 90% of the world believe in god/s, because when you think about that that means 90% of the world are delusional, irrational and just plain nuts, which kind of explains a heck of a lot....

            Religion should come with a health warning, it rots your brain and your ethical standards.

            To paraphrase; the good would be good, the bad would be bad, but for the good to be bad it takes religion, never have truer words been uttered.

            Arguements between competing religions boil down to an arguement over who's invisible friend is better, and thats never going to end well considering the above, I wish they'd just pick a nice large deserted land mass somewhere and just have it out, perhaps with nukes and leave the rest of us (the 10% that arn't nuts) to get on with life, give it 50 years and we'd be living like we're on star trek or something without them holding us back (stem cell research as an example)[/quote]

            Well said that man, I fully agree!

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            • #7
              Watched this a few days back and found it very interesting.
              Nuff said.

              [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SENkfh8S6LU"]YouTube - The God Delusion[/ame]
              Graham



              University of life. Studying cool .
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              • #8
                Yeah, that pastor is the type I was on about, one of the nutters (in his case chief nutter) who is out there and to think a lot of the worlds leaders listen to people like him..... its psychos like that guy who will cause the next world war.
                Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

                Current kit

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                • #9
                  religion = war
                  Science has never caused a war............
                  protos maxv2
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                  • #10
                    If one religion believes in only one god... and another believes In many different gods...then they cant both be right......

                    If everything has to come from somewhere... where did "god" come from? But then where did gods creator come from? But then where did the creator of the crator of god come from.... ect...... ;)
                    I left the hobby 3 years ago and discovered Women.

                    I wish I never left.

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                    • #11
                      Another thing that really annoys me is their arrogance, they go around acusing scientists of arrogance, yet it is they who believe they have a personal relationship with some all powerful being, which means that some all powerful being cares about what they think.

                      Now thats arrogance.
                      Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

                      Current kit

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                      • #12
                        Ask a religious person why god created us so badly, with an appendix, a blind spot in our eyesight, wisdom teeth, tonsils, or even men's nipples. Why is human birth so traumatic compared to most animals? Why is the esophagus designed to so easily choke you on your food? Why is the feeling of asphyxiation completely miswired? There are so many reasons why you could argue that, if we are designed, a pretty poor job has been done.

                        [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_poor_design]Argument from poor design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

                        This letter sent to the infamous Dr Laura made me chuckle too
                        [I]Dear Dr. Laura:[/I]

                        [I]Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law.[/I]
                        [I]I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge
                        with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
                        lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
                        states it to be an abomination. ... End of debate.[/I]
                        [I]I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of
                        God's Law and how to follow them.[/I]

                        [I]1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
                        pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They
                        claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?[/I]

                        [I]2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
                        21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?[/I]

                        [I]3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
                        period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.[/I]

                        [I]4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
                        female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A
                        friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
                        Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?[/I]

                        [I]5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.[/I] [I]
                        The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?[/I]

                        [I]6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
                        abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
                        don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?[/I]

                        [I]7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
                        defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
                        vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?[/I]

                        [I]8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
                        around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?[/I]

                        [I]9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
                        unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?[/I]

                        [I]10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
                        crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)[/I]


                        [I]I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.[/I]

                        [I]Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.[/I]

                        [I]Your adoring fan,[/I]

                        [I]Anonymous[/I]
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                        • #13
                          [quote]a blind spot in our eyesight[/quote]

                          Two actually per eye, a daylight vision blind spot that your brain fills in the missing image for from what the other eye sees, and a low light vision blind spot, directly where you are looking, called the fovea, that the brain doesnt fill in, its just a black region about the size of a 2p piece held at arms length.

                          To "see" the low light one, next time you go to bed, take a look around in very low light after your eyes have adjusted, when you try to focus on an object to see its detail if you look right at it you will just see a black patch, but if you look a bit to the side you'll see the object.

                          So yes, bad design, twice over in this case.

                          [url]http://www.aoa.org/x5352.xml[/url]
                          Last edited by Rotorhead; 04-09-2010, 02:16 PM.
                          Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

                          Current kit

                          Evo 50
                          T-rex 500FG night setup.
                          T-rex 700N pro
                          T-rex 450 pro
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                          • #14
                            Now this is not a bash at any religion or beliefs in this case christianity and scientology.
                            These videos are not to cause offence but mere another stepping stone in this discussion.
                            Now there is/used to be an online argument on youtube between a guy called Thunderfoot and another called venomfangx on wheather theres a God etc. These videos are long winded and about 33 epsiodes long but make for great viewing and give a good insight:

                            Heres ep1, just follow the links to ep2 and so on, they are worth a watch.
                            [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY"]YouTube - Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 1)[/ame]

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                            • #15
                              I'm 99% rationalist but I leave 1% open for what has yet to be discovered and for what I may not understand or be able to rationalise.

                              Professor Stephen Hawking is trying to sell a book.

                              Rational enough. ;)
                              Koz
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