B test schedule

[Sesame]

Or the heli failed in some way...
Cheers,
Rob

or they didnt check it properly in the first place as per bmfa guidlines

[robgt]

LOL
Perhaps...
Failures do happen in flight even on a carefully checked model - believe me, I know!

Cheers,
Rob

[Rotorhead]

NP Rcslopesurfer, I understand.

Speaking of crashes...

The last three crashes/near crashes, I've had have been mechanical or electronic failure, including a radio lock out, a failed battery and a failed servo, in that order, all passed pre-flight, but once you are up in the air all bets are off, the last one wasnt a crash but definatly close to being one.

The only thing I have been saying and I still think it is that the A test essentially boils down to only three manuvoures, lazy eights, hovering flight forwards, then to the side, and thats about it, but it should be more.

Whereas the B is about a dozen things when you break it down, I just think that some of the things from the B could be brought over to the A and included in that, rather than having such a huge jump between the two, and doing so would make the A mean more, and a few more things adding to the B, mainly autos.

[richieclarkie]

How can you add autos to the exam? There are many pilots I know that would rather not do them (not me I love them). There is an element of risk and add nerves you could find the person taking the B puts it in on the auto.

As I said in an earlier post the powered 45 degree decent is harder than a staight auto IMHO so why change it?

I don't think the A needs nose in, but how about a basic hovering or slow ff circuit either left or right?

[Rotorhead]

How can you add autos to the exam? There are many pilots I know that would rather not do them (not me I love them). There is an element of risk and add nerves you could find the person taking the B puts it in on the auto.

As I said in an earlier post the powered 45 degree decent is harder than a staight auto IMHO so why change it?

Because the B should test the ability of a pilot to safely recover a model that has lost power, almost everyone here agrees on this point, if anything it could be last on the list of things to do for the test, and if I where writing the auto part I would only say demonstrate one auto, no conditions other than it be done safely (ie not landing in the pits) I wouldnt say anything like "within a particular area" or anything, just show an auto, and it wouldnt have to be a dead engine one either, just on throttle hold.

[Rotorhead]

I don't think the A needs nose in, but how about a basic hovering or slow ff circuit either left or right?

Well that would have a nose in part, and at less than 10mph I would call that a momentary nose in hover as it passes the nose in point, so I suppose....

[Ashley Davis]

I think the powered 45 degree descent is harder than an auto and the auto doesn't prove anything but that you can do a 45 degree descent with the engine off.
Basically you are asking the student to risk their model to get the certificate, which is why in the 'B' it's a powered descent. I can't see that an auto proves some extra level of skill, it's just an extra level of nerve.

[richieclarkie]

Well that would have a nose in part, and at less than 10mph I would call that a momentary nose in hover as it passes the nose in point, so I suppose....

So you agree? That to me seems reasonably achievable. Anyone else?

[Jamez]

A test standard flying seems like a mile away when you are making your first hops on the training balls, or hooleying around the sky on a lead. But it gives you something to aim for that is not totaly out of reach like the B test is. If it was too hard the person its aimed at wouldn't want it because they would think, I will never do that, so why bother. I WANTED my A and said when I joined the club at the end of Febuary that I would get it by the end of August. Well my A cert says 30 August 2007, realistic goal in a realistic time, time to move on to the next step, Nose in Hovering and proper circuits. What do you want, a cerificate of 'basic' compentence or people saying I won't be able to do that so i will never be able to fly on my own, might as well give up now.

[richieclarkie]

This is a really important point Jamez.

The last thing that the BMFA certicates should be doing is discouraging people from taking them. The basic priciple is to improve peoples flying by encouragement, not put an obstacle in their way.

[Ashley Davis]

Unless you teach beginners regularly or run A tests you tend to forget what it's like to be a beginner and how hard this stuff is initially.

[timebandit]

An interesting thread, it's good to see a crappy manoeuvre deleted and a more relevent one introduced.
For me it's all about demonstrating competance in various aspects of flight, showing you don't have handedness and can fly to both sides, take account of wind etc. Some of the B moves may seem pretty daft, but they all play a part in examining these aspects.
Another important aspect of the B test is ensuring that a pilot pre-flights/flys in a competent and safe manor in a stressful environment. It's exactly these conditions that he/she will face when flying in public.

Now should the auto be included, no because not all helis auto well, 30 size, scale etc.

Because the B should test the ability of a pilot to safely recover a model that has lost powe

Some may say "But surely the helicopter should not be in a position where losing power would be unsafe, we are talking about the safety of others and yourself here, not the helicopter"'; A very utopian view, but valid.
Whilst others may say, "being able to auto shows you can react to a adnormal situation"
I say a little from column A, and a little from column B.

What about an either/or choice; 45 degree decent or an auto from at least 10m altitude.
Or a B+ acreditation, with extra credit given for an auto, well just a thought.

Hey, maybe it should be like the driving test, the examiner hits you on the head with his clipboard ( in the absence of a dashboard) and you have to perform a perfect auto.

[LipolyGone]

Some people have short memories Ash.
I can tell you I've been in this game since I was 16 & I'm 40 next year.
Mainly fixed wing till about 2002 but believe me heli flying is the devill incarnate, damned hard to do & anyone who can do a walking paced figure 8 keeping the tail following around the 8 is a hero in my book.
It's alot easier to hoon around the sky plank style but try slowing it all up thats where the real test of a new pilots skill is

[Biggles]

Another angle!!!

If a pilot takes their B on windy day and fails then retakes it on a flat calm day and passes....what does this say????? The pilot can only fly to B standard if the weather is right for them????

So really does the pilot deserve the B if this is the case?????


food for thought???

[Rainman]

Good question

Personally, I take the account of the weather when taking people for their tests. If it is calm, I expect the manouvers to be flown more accurately

I usually fly a demonstration first so that the candidate knows what is expected of them.


Richard