B test schedule

[marktigere1]

Then what are they going to do when the end up in a hover facing themselves one day.....

Turn it tail in or side on perhaps?

[moyesboy]

If what you are after is safety then the important thing is that the pilot can recover from a mistake without the heli flying off behind the flightline etc.

The accuracy the pilot can fly a set manoevre he has practised to death is a different thing.

If I find my heli going backwards, or facing the wrong way then its easy enough to recover it, but that doesn't mean I can fly an accurate backwards circuit - nowhere near that. I can get round one sometimes, and I can definitely attempt one without placing myself or anyone else in danger (unless they run out in front of the flight line without warning).
I can hover right way up in all orentations, and inverted nose in and side on.

To me the sort of competance that should be sought for a B cert is not to do with flying set manoevres, but an overall ability to fly safely and competantly, to a level where anyone would be prepared to give that pilot a go with their expensive heli for example. That is a hard thing to test and totally subjective. You'd need to just watch the pilot fly for several flights and see that he flies a range of manoevres, isn't overly conservative and is always flying safely.
That is very difficult for the examiner, which is why we end up with the set manoevres as something that can more easily be assessed. however I reckon if you bale out and recover control well when you get a manoevre wrong, that should be a plus point, not a fail!

Perhaps the B test should include attempting a manoevre that you cannot complete!

I would be against introducing a C test as compulsory for competitions. Rather if a pilot doens't have the paper qualification then he might need a test flight in front of the organisers.
I read something by dave fisher about entering competitions and how incompetant he was at his first competition in MHW I think...
competitons need a whole host of "also rans" entering in order to mean something!

[Ashley Davis]

I think you will be surprised about the number of people flying helis that can do nose in and ciricuits at club level

I've been flying heli's on and off for 22 years I don't think I need telling what club level pilots can do.......and it's irrelevant.
The A test is designed to assess whether you can be trusted to fly your model in a safe manner, doing a perfect nose-in hover proves nothing other than you have mastered one of many moves. I fail to see why nose-in is so important, if you are in control in your lazy eight and circuit there is no reason that the heli will suddenly turn nose-in and if you've masterered hovering and lazy eight you just turn the model away to side on or tail in.

Far more important is the pilot conduct and that they can display an ability to keep the model in an orientation they have learned......then they are safe. When they want to learn nose in it will be done deliberately not by mistake, if you suddenly find yourself nose-in and you didn't want to be in that attitude then clearly you haven't mastered side on or tail in either, with gyros what they are today there's no reason to suddenly be nose-in and the A test would highlight any such problems as it stands.

[Jamez]

Just my opinion, but as far as I am concerned that means unless you can fly it around and be able to bring it back to a hover no matter which way its facing at the time you stopped without having to turn it so that its tail in, then you're simply not yet up to the standard where I would say "yes he/she is competent and can fly unsupervised at a club"

I can do that, I bring it back to a tail in hover ( I can side hover both directions, but feel safer tail in) , just because its facing side on / nose in, dosen't mean you have to hover it there, if you are more comfatable hovering tail in, thats where you will turn to, don't mean its un safe does it???

[LipolyGone]

Another problem is that not many people see any point in it, me included, I never bothered with my A, I never needed it, and only took my B because there happened to be the area examiner there on the day who brought it up

I sincerely hope you dont become an examiner Rotorhead we have enough people already who feel that perfection is their objective whilst testing & that the B is a show pass for pilots which it most certainly isnt.
They feel free to implement their own testing standards & veer away from the test as it should be conducted.
I dont feel your quite grasping the concept of the achievment scheme as it has been set out by the BMFA.
All beginers have to start somewhere the A test is merely an acheivment put in place by the BMFA to say your flying is to a certain level.
The 45 degree walking figure of 8's prove that the pilot knows which way to push the sticks whilst the heli is heading across from both left & rightI feel this is hard enough as it is.
The A test is most certainly not a test to proove your proficient to fly nose in or do aerobatics the B test covers that one.

[Ashley Davis]

finally some sense

[Rotorhead]

I sincerely hope you dont become an examiner Rotorhead

Get lost then.

we have enough people already who feel that perfection is their objective whilst testing & that the B is a show pass for pilots which it most certainly isnt.

I dont want perfection, I just dont think that the A is actually up to a good enough standard to use as an indicator of ability to say ok this person is ok on their own and doesnt need to be watched.

They feel free to implement their own testing standards & veer away from the test as it should be conducted.

Well they shouldnt, and I wouldnt.

I dont feel your quite grasping the concept of the achievment scheme as it has been set out by the BMFA.

Well then let me correct your feeling.

I do understand it, I am just saying here that I dont agree with it, to me the format seems wrong and there isnt IMO balance between the A and the B.

All beginers have to start somewhere the A test is merely an acheivment put in place by the BMFA to say your flying is to a certain level.
The 45 degree walking figure of 8's prove that the pilot knows which way to push the sticks whilst the heli is heading across from both left & rightI feel this is hard enough as it is.

Yes, but again I believe that the BMFA has set the test lower than I would have if it where my decision.

The A test is most certainly not a test to proove your proficient to fly nose in or do aerobatics the B test covers that one.

Never said it was a test to prove aerobatics or nose in, but IMO it should at least be updated to include nose in.

[robgt]

If you feel strongly enough about it, you could always get in touch with Pete Christy and see how you can get better involved with the BMFA to effect change from the inside as far as helicopters are concerned?
I'm certain they need all the help they can get!

Just a thought
Cheers,
Rob

[jamiesawyer28041978]

Im away up the top of the country and there isn't a club or examiner anywhere near me at all as far as i know . Been flying for 2 and a half years now and in my eyes im a safe pilot with my helli and can fly in all orientations except the dreaded nose in hover WHICH ill get then ill video the a and b test my sell and post it on here but ill never be able to sit it properly but that will still make me an unsafe pilot I SUPPOSE ........

Jamie

[HuskyD]

If a heli in the hands of a current A cert pilot can suddenly turn 180 without warning, surely it's just as likely to roll over inverted?
The A cert should include inverted flight too!












Sorry no, I didn't mean that, just making a point.

[marktigere1]

If a heli in the hands of a current A cert pilot can suddenly turn 180 without warning, surely it's just as likely to roll over inverted?

If any of my Heli's did that, I'd chuck it in the bin

[LipolyGone]

RotarHead I am Sorry if you felt any personal judgement towards yourself but I have been on the end of an over zealous examiner.
Your post kind of got my back up a little & brought back some extremely bad memories
This examiner claimed I had to do everything into wind, roll right when doing my two consecutive rolls from right to left & vice versa for left to right because he thought this test would allow me to fly at Sandown or some such place I'm never going to get to fly at. None of these extra implementations are in the hand book I'll hasten to add.
He also swore at me when I dared question his requests telling me just do the fffin maneuver the way you took off which was directly away from us into wind so how he would see it as I pointed out to him would be quite a trick on his part.
The chief examiner actualy was quite amazed at this instructors outburst I heard later but said nothing to my defence during the course of my test, only afterwards when this examiner had quite obviously failed me was it that he spoke to me offering a re test due to the examiners incompetence. I declined as my toys were well & truly out of the pram & my nerves were already shot & I just wanted to go home & sulk for being the victim of this BMFA examiners wrath so please do excuse me if I get a little on my soapbox. I have good reason.
My sincere apologies.
Martin

I think what trvo said is a moot point.
I can fly quite happily around a circuit, a FF eight & do 540 stall turns
& a loop of sorts.
But I'm realy struggling on that walking paced lazy 8
where the heli must be hovered at walking pace the tail must follow the circuit around & cross over at 45 deg in the centre.
To be honest I think I could pass my B test easier than I could my A.
So I ask whats the point.
I'm not a badge collector I'm just your avererage sport flier.
As for the BMFA I hate them with a vengence cost me alot of money in car repairs.
But thats another story.

[Sesame]

I dont mean to make an inflamitory remark but, if we all flew our helis in control 100% of the time the spares suppliers would soon go out of business, they obviously arn't which would mean that people are crashing if people are crashing then surely they have lost control at some point.

my understanding of the test is that the pilot has gain a basic understanding of the controls and has also read and understood all the safety guidlines and club rules so that they are less of a danger to themselves and people around them.
The other tests are taking it from that basic understanding and moving towards a more dynamic control of the model i.e if basic flight is to control a tail in hover and basic forward flight with turnes, then the next step is going to be learning other orientations etc.

as it stands I think the tests do this fairly well, however there does seam to me to be a large gulf between the FW B and the Heli B, but then maybe they should be different because of the differences in the way each type of model behaves.

just a few thoughts I wanted to toss into the pot

[HuskyD]

If any of my Heli's did that, I'd chuck it in the bin

I think if helis started doing that they'd be bin fodder by default

[robgt]

if people are crashing then surely they have lost control at some point

Or the heli failed in some way...
Cheers,
Rob