B test schedule

[HuskyD]

I also watch the candidates attitude to safety and how he / she flies outside of the test.

Trev

Ah yes, that was the other thing I meant to mention. The examiners watch "everything" both before and after your test. Quite rightly too. It's very easy to learn all the safety stuff and do it just one time for the benefit of the examiner and not bother for the rest of the time. That's reason enough alone for failing.

[Rotorhead]

Plane eaxminer can only take you for your BMFA 'A' they can be a 2nd examiner for Helicopter 'B' but they cannot be the Lead examiner.

Helicopter examiner can take plane 'A' and be a 2nd examiner for the plane 'B' but again cannot be the Lead examiner.

Apprently its because either examiner is there to make sure you fly safely and therefore either can do the 'A'... Not sure I agree with that.

I belive the examiner should at least have an 'A' in a disciplin they are taking if they are not an Examiner for it.(So heli examiner would need to hold a plane 'A' for example, plane exaimner would need to hold Heli 'A' to take helicopter's)

I am definatly going to try and do my 'B' within the next month!

Sorry, yes, thats correct, but in my case it was not like that, because it was the area examiner that did mine, and with an area examiner its as I described, they can be a fixed wing only pilot and they dont have to have someone else as a second examiner.

[Rotorhead]

Personally I think the A is too easy and some of the things from the B should really be on the A, and there should be a C.

If I where setting it, it would be

A: hover in all orientations for a set time over a designated spot, do lazy eights both directions and move the heli forwards and side to side while tail in, basically just adding the different orientations in the hover.

B: Circuits both directions at constant height, stall turns both directions, auto from both left and right, nose in hover for the 20 seconds, one loop either direction.

C: same as B but + Both left and right roll, 540 stall turns both directions, inverted hover both nose in and tail in.

[trvo]

I disagree, the A test is simply used by most clubs to judge whether a pilot can safely control his / her model. It is done to such a level that it will prove to the club that the user can safely execute some basic manouevres. Quite often an A test candidate cannot circuit at the stage when he / she is safe to fly 'solo'.

The B test is suitable but missing an autorotation.

The C test needs to be a selection of smooth aerobatics executed in an F3C manner such that the examiner can make an accurate judgement on the candidates abilities.

Trev

[Sesame]

So why is it the B tests are so very different.

Is it just the fact the technology has moved on and the test hasn't.

personnally I want to do my b's for a couple of reasons it removes a barrier from places I may wish to fly, and as already mentioned it is a note of achievment, however I feel I could do all the manouvers required and probably to a level that would be expected. but I do feel the heli test is extremely simple in its design, the only difficulty being how accurate the examiners want you to fly it and that is purely down to their level of expectancy.

[robgt]

I disagree, the A test is simply used by most clubs to judge whether a pilot can safely control his / her model. It is done to such a level that it will prove to the club that the user can safely execute some basic manouevres. Quite often an A test candidate cannot circuit at the stage when he / she is safe to fly 'solo'.

Exactly
Cheers,
Rob

[LipolyGone]

I think what trvo said is a moot point.
I can fly quite happily around a circuit, a FF eight & do 540 stall turns
& a loop of sorts.
But I'm realy struggling on that walking paced lazy 8
where the heli must be hovered at walking pace the tail must follow the circuit around & cross over at 45 deg in the centre.
To be honest I think I could pass my B test easier than I could my A.
So I ask whats the point.
I'm not a badge collector I'm just your avererage sport flier.
As for the BMFA I hate them with a vengence cost me alot of money in car repairs.
But thats another story.

[trvo]

For the A I am not looking for perfection, and I assure you that the B test is harder. If you cannot do the lazy 8 then that suggests you lack some foundation skills. The B test needs to be completed to a fairly precise standard however...

Trev

[LipolyGone]

You might not be looking for perfection but my plank flying examiner who will be taking me for my test will be. I demonstrated my fixed wing B at one of these instructors days & was aplauded for my flying then when I was tested got failed mate the whole acheivment scheme is based around the instructors beliefs if he feels you should roll left on a left to right pass & you roll right he can fail you even though none of this is mentioned in the rules etc.
I'm not saying I cant fly it I can just not to the standard he will be looking for. He has never flown a heli nor does he have access to heli fliers he just saw a test being done one weekend this year & basis his judgement on that it's a farce.

[trvo]

That is not right on his part then. The A test is not a 'perfection' test in any way, it is a test to demonstrate control. I personally make a point to never take tests that I have not passed myself as I cannot tell how hard it is.

Trev

[Stuart]

Personally I think the A is too easy and some of the things from the B should really be on the A, and there should be a C.

If I where setting it, it would be

A: hover in all orientations for a set time over a designated spot, do lazy eights both directions and move the heli forwards and side to side while tail in, basically just adding the different orientations in the hover.

B: Circuits both directions at constant height, stall turns both directions, auto from both left and right, nose in hover for the 20 seconds, one loop either direction.

C: same as B but + Both left and right roll, 540 stall turns both directions, inverted hover both nose in and tail in.

This would be my suggestion.

A: hover in all orientations for a set time over a designated spot, do lazy eights both directions and move the heli forwards and side to side while tail in, basically just adding the different orientations in the hover.

B: Circuits both directions at constant height, stall turns both directions, auto from both left and right, nose in hover for the 20 seconds, Backward circuits in both directions at a constant height.

(I removed the need for a loop as I feel a "B" should be used to ensure that the pilot is confident in his controls in all orientations both forwards and backwards. Most accidents aka dumb thumbs are a result of a wrong input due to orientation and lack of confidence. If you can fly upright from all angles in both forward and backwards in controlled flight then this will show that your more than comfortable in flying and safely)

C: Both left and right roll forwards and backwards, inverted hover both nose in and tail in, inverted circuits both forwards and backwards, inverted auto.

Most pilots will stop at a B for a while before securing a "C" as they develop thier skills and control to a whole new level.

Then I would take it a stage further and say that ALL comps require a level "C". For 'B's they can do display/demonstration flying but with a restricted set manouvers only allowed.

But I would also like to see the achievement scheme developed a stage further. For example you can select certain manouvers from a level an be tested on it individually, once you have all secured you achieve this level. Rather than try and lump it into one days flying. This way the examiner will see the pilots skills develop I would expect the examiner would also as the pilot to perform the one's they also previously secured to make sure that are keep thier skill levels at the correct level.

Just my idea and no-doubt makes life more complicated but I think is shows that we are enhancing the scheme to match the level of flyers and helicopters across the country. I doubt the BMFA thought for one second that heli's would be flying inverted all over the place when they thought up the scheme.

[LipolyGone]

I hear you trev & you are right in what your saying I just wish all instructors had common sence & new how to use it.

[trvo]

Cheers, that is all it boils down to at the end - "Do I have confidence in the candidates skills". Not "Can this pilot complete this test to the standards of the British F3C team".

Trev

[Richie b]

thanks for the answer about the 4 point piro

surley what the whole A,B and c test debate should come down is what Trvo says
The examiner should have confidence in the candidates skills to fly within his own abillity and that it is to a standard set by the BMFA

I seroiusly struggle to get my A eariler this yaer beacuse i couldn't do a lazy eight but could happily go round a big eight as required by the B test, it has made me rethink my flying style and the fact that i need to get the basics down before i bugger of and start to learn loops roll and flips

i also agree that there should be an Auto in the B test but as me and Jamez have discust it OK to say climb to 70 foot line it up and auto in to this area how about you fly some cicuits and at the appropriate time the examiner ask you to perform an auto, so that you can prove that you can get your heli down safely

[fatmantom]

gunna be doing my A test on sunday...i'll tell u how i get on!

interesting read tho!
cheers,