B test schedule

[Biggles]

Auto's are another can of worms

There are pro's and con's for this to be included. The splinters in my ass show I am on the fence at the moment.

Richard

What's wrong with autos????

Planes have to do dead stick or is that because it is easier to do dead stick with planes!

I thought it was all about public safety etc etc

[Rainman]

If you read CAP 658, this will give you alot of information. Remeber the BMFA are not our insurance company, merely its agents

[Biggles]

Also if it wasn't a test then why do you need an examiner??? Are exams not 'tests'???? thus an examiner????

[Rainman]

have you never done a test for personal achievement?

[Biggles]

If you read CAP 658, this will give you alot of information. Remeber the BMFA are not our insurance company, merely its agents

I knew you were gonna say that!!! LOL

The bmfa are our first port of call....How many members would the bmfa have if insurance could be sourced at the same price from elsewhere???

[Biggles]

have you never done a test for personal achievement?

Yes multiples!!!

[Rainman]

and without a central organisation looking after our intersts at national level, would we still have a hobby?

The BMFA is the first point of call and make all the relevant information available for us.

[Biggles]

I think the term central body is more appropriate in their case. In the last 10 years of heli flying I have yet to see much organisation.

Let's face it the bmfa is filled with lots of folk (not all but lots) who have their own agendas.

and heli's will always be the minority.

Look at the events like clubmans and 3d masters where the central bodies have nothing to do with the organisation of the event and look how well they run!!!

Hell the bmfa/fai do not even recognize 3d at comp level.

Talk about keep up with the times!!!

[Rotorhead]

I have my B, and I think the test is a bag of w**k to be quite honest, simply because it seems to have been written by someone who is a plank flyer.

For a B I would expect there to be more nose in than there is for a start, second the auto should be covered, and a basic loop.

TBH some of the manuvoures seem to just be there because they needed padding, eg the top hat, other than to do the B, I have yet to see anyone do it in every day flying.

I've been teaching people to fly, and some of the manuvoures I would consider unecessary in the current B to tell me they know what they are doing and they are competent.

The way the test should be done is the examiner watches you fly without telling you, then after the flight asks you questions, you should be doing range check, preflight and pegging on/off and post-flight anyway, they should assess you on what they have seen of your flying, not from set manuvoures, as all they prove is that you learned those manuvoures.

The examiner should really only be a heli pilot him/herself, as they are more likely to know what to be looking for, at the moment it doesnt matter if they fly helis themselves, they can still be your examiner, which seems wrong.

Its like a driving instructor taking you for your PPL, its that different.

[Disc]

I have my B, and I think the test is a bag of w**k to be quite honest, simply because it seems to have been written by someone who is a plank flyer.

For a B I would expect there to be more nose in than there is for a start, second the auto should be covered, and a basic loop.

TBH some of the manuvoures seem to just be there because they needed padding, eg the top hat, other than to do the B, I have yet to see anyone do it in every day flying.

I've been teaching people to fly, and some of the manuvoures I would consider unecessary in the current B to tell me they know what they are doing and they are competent.

The way the test should be done is the examiner watches you fly without telling you, then after the flight asks you questions, you should be doing range check, preflight and pegging on/off and post-flight anyway, they should assess you on what they have seen of your flying, not from set manuvoures, as all they prove is that you learned those manuvoures.

The examiner should really only be a heli pilot him/herself, as they are more likely to know what to be looking for, at the moment it doesnt matter if they fly helis themselves, they can still be your examiner, which seems wrong.

Its like a driving instructor taking you for your PPL, its that different.

Plane eaxminer can only take you for your BMFA 'A' they can be a 2nd examiner for Helicopter 'B' but they cannot be the Lead examiner.

Helicopter examiner can take plane 'A' and be a 2nd examiner for the plane 'B' but again cannot be the Lead examiner.

Apprently its because either examiner is there to make sure you fly safely and therefore either can do the 'A'... Not sure I agree with that.

I belive the examiner should at least have an 'A' in a disciplin they are taking if they are not an Examiner for it.(So heli examiner would need to hold a plane 'A' for example, plane exaimner would need to hold Heli 'A' to take helicopter's)

I am definatly going to try and do my 'B' within the next month!

[moyesboy]

It seems to me like the heli A and B tests date from before we had decent gyros. The manoevres are too simple.
The hovering M and top hat are a bit pointless becuase they are not manoevres you ever see people do at the field, and certainly not at a display. They are not even manoevres a full size would do.

A loop would be a reasonable thing (but isn't scale).
The 4 point piro hover is a good move.
How about a nose toward centre circle as an alternative to a loop for non aerobatic models.

I reckon the B should have an auto. you wouldn't fly solo in a full size without doing autos. you shouldn't fly at a display (in my opinion) without being able to auto.
It should be a get it down safe test , like into wind straight into a 10m square or something like that. Perhaps even an oblong type runway area.

It could be argued however that if you are flying safely and correctly the heli can drop to the floor engine off at any point during the flight without being a danger. Its just so sad if that happens, people should be encouraged to learn how to auto!

My problem at the moment is figuring out just how accurately all the monaoevres need to be flown. It seems to me it would be quite subjective depending on the attitude of the examiners. I can fly the manoevres pretty much the same in loads of wind or no wind, but not fantastically accurate in either! This is the down side of flying pretty much on my own and not finding the manoevres very interesting.

[trvo]

It seems to me like the heli A and B tests date from before we had decent gyros. The manoevres are too simple.
The hovering M and top hat are a bit pointless becuase they are not manoevres you ever see people do at the field, and certainly not at a display. They are not even manoevres a full size would do.

The hovering M and Top Hat demonstrate control over the model, it also shows up a candidates perception of distance etc. The M I have always felt is dangerous and thank god they've finally replaced it. It doesn't matter if it's a move you'd do at the field or not, it shows that you can adapt outside your comfort zone and control the model in that particular orientation. I think the top hat is an excellent representation of control over your model.

A loop would be a reasonable thing (but isn't scale).
The 4 point piro hover is a good move.
How about a nose toward centre circle as an alternative to a loop for non aerobatic models.

I don't think that the B test should be based around aerobatics, it's aimed at control and precision, nor have an opt out for a different move, it should be the same for everyone.

I reckon the B should have an auto. you wouldn't fly solo in a full size without doing autos. you shouldn't fly at a display (in my opinion) without being able to auto.
It should be a get it down safe test , like into wind straight into a 10m square or something like that. Perhaps even an oblong type runway area.

It could be argued however that if you are flying safely and correctly the heli can drop to the floor engine off at any point during the flight without being a danger. Its just so sad if that happens, people should be encouraged to learn how to auto!

Agreed

My problem at the moment is figuring out just how accurately all the monaoevres need to be flown. It seems to me it would be quite subjective depending on the attitude of the examiners. I can fly the manoevres pretty much the same in loads of wind or no wind, but not fantastically accurate in either! This is the down side of flying pretty much on my own and not finding the manoevres very interesting.

Being an examiner myself, I look for the candidate to have control over the model and the model to be doing what the candidate WANTS it to do rather than fighting it (which I see all to often). With nerves taken into account I am looking for a person that is comfortable doing the manouevres and doing so in a safe controlled manner. The question I ask myself at the end of a test is - "Would I be happy with this person flying at a display of mine?".

The manouevres I feel can give me an accurate representation of the candidates control over the model, I also watch the candidates attitude to safety and how he / she flies outside of the test.

Trev

[Disc]

Hang on when wil lthis new manouver replace the hovering 'M' in the 'B'

2008 ? or it already has?

[trvo]

Had a letter in the post a few weeks back from the BMFA - will check what it says when I get home (if I remember).

Trev

[HuskyD]

I took my A and B in the summer

The A is a walk in the park for most if they spend a bit of time practicing. However even very experienced fliers who've moved on to stick banging struggle to do a perfect A test routine without a couple of goes at it. Why?, cos they haven't done it or anything similar in ages, too busy doing death spirals and chaos loops.

The B does test your ability somewhat, well it did for me in that taking the B was a spur of the moment decision and I hadn't spent time practicing the manouvers. Except nose in which I'd cracked, but the rest I'd gone through once or twice before. So for me it wasn't something I'd trained my brain and thumbs to do, I had to actually fly those manouvers more or less as if it was the first time.

A someone said, the test is a personal achievement that you take for your own satisfaction.
Although I have my B, I certainly wouldn't say I'm fit to fly in competition (not because I'd be dangerous, but because I'd get laughed at) but it is, how should I put it, the first indication that a flier has basic ability to control their model safely in public. It's up to a comp or show organisor to decide whether someone is capable of flying at their event and they'd be mad to base it on someone holding a B cert alone.
Throwing in a stationary roll, or a loop, or inverted hover with a piro climbout could spice it up a little, but where would you stop?

In saying that I'm proud of my achievement, despite the disdain there is from some quarters regarding the validity of the test.

And to answer the original question, we were the guinee pigs (there may have been more) , we were asked to do the 4 point pirouette at the end of the test, although we didn't know anything about it prior to the examiners turning up at the field. I preferred it to the M as having the heli go so far back past the flight line is not something that's safe or something you'd do normally.

I'm all for a C cert, but I don't think that it would be anymore valid than the B cert, just a personal record of achievement that you can do some more comlpicated manouvers.

Oh er, that was a long post.