BMFA , Flybarless and "B" tests ?

[Grant_beltcp]

this would be easy to demonstrate within the pc software as you can clearly see there if the self level is enabled or not

Well that makes it simple then - Like I say, if i wasnt familiar with the system I would research it on a smartphone or get the candidate to explain how any auto features work and to prove it wasnt active. Although the Examiner's get no pay, or recognition from the BMFA, and it takes up our spare time (it can be a PITA!) I feel its the duty of the examiner to make sure he/she finds out how these things work rather than penalise the candidate for our lack of knowledge.

[Nutter]

I have taken tests with Vbar's, BeastX's and I think a 3G (I should have failed them just for buying a 3G in the first place ). I havn't encountered anyone using a Skookum yet, but if they were I would probably get them to demonstrate that it is not set up to use any form of self levelling. I would most likely check the manual on my Iphone and see what obvious signs would say if it's in auto save mode or not such as external LED's. If the candidate was unable to correctly inform me of exactly how he has the autosave set-up and that he can dissable it for the test then i would not pass them as they don't know the basics of how their equiptment works.

At last!!! A straight answer from an examiner!!!

Thanks Grant.

[waveydavey]

Can I just say in contrast to what others have said, what a superb thread. Excelllent debate, some great points and above all informative. One of the best threads ever in my opinion. Thanks Rachel

[jamiem]

At last!!! A straight answer from an examiner!!!

Thanks Grant.

I said exactly the same myself a few pages back I would have no problem testing anyone with 3G, 3GX, V-Bar, BeastX, and with any that I'm unfamiliar with, I'd ask for the manual first to check if it has self righting or position hold, and of it does, a demonstration that it is not enabled I have already tested someone with a V-Bar, so no problem with fbl as far as I'm concerned.

[LaurenceGough]

Actually, that's not as daft as it sounds! At least, not for a "B" cert! I would be quite happy to take a machine up to 20ft or so, a reasonable distance out, disturb it, and let it diverge a while before collecting it back up again. This would clearly demonstrate the absence of any auto-pilot functions, and anybody who couldn't do that probably shouldn't have a "B" cert anyway! (Just my personal view, you understand!)

+1 solved.

[Rotorhead]

Not the Skookum. It's all gyros and accelerometers.

I'm not sure you need accelerometers to implement self-levelling, but they'll certainly make it better & more reliable.

The Skookum also uses the accelerometers for flight logging.

The problem with accellerometers and gyros is time, unless they are extremely high precision (full scale navigation grade) which even the best RC types are not, they will drift, the SL720 is rated at 5 degrees per minute as it's minimum allowable rate of drift, which is actually very high compared to nav equipment, if you want to be able to level it, and leave it where you put it and come back later you need something that measures some fixed reference system or point, eg the horizon or better yet GPS.

Full scale aviation INS systems are just not good enough for high accuracy (within 10m) longer than 24hrs, usually by that time they can be kilometers off, so I doubt that model grade electronics will be for more than a few minutes, hence why they built the GPS system.

[Andy from Sandy]

Like I say, if i wasnt familiar with the system I would research it on a smartphone or get the candidate to explain how any auto features work and to prove it wasnt active.

Looking through this thread several examiners have expressed that they do all they can to help a fellow pilot through the test. Even to the point of putting themselves out.

Having had some time to think about this it would appear that Richard is going to work on a case by case basis. He will not take the experience of one model to the next. He will not assume that having seen one model with a v-bar proved to be compliant that the next model with a v-bar will similarly be compliant. It is taking the guidline to its full conclusion that you the pilot have to do all the work and prove your FBL unit does not take over control of the model.

Candidates should be prepared to explain the capabilities of the system they are using and show that it does not take over control from the pilot and that automated flight will not be achieved during the test.

All I need know is how can I satisfy the examiner that the electronics does not take over control?

This might be where the grey area is in that each examiner is free to set their own criteria as to what they want the pilot to prove and this can obviously be made as hard or easy as you like.

[electricsceadu]

It is not only Richard who holds these views on flybarless, as Richard was not one of the two helicopter Chief examiners who visited our club and neither of them were old fogies either. More in jest than anything else, I too asked about using my MCP-x for the A test but this did not appear to be an option either, so back to the drawing board!!

if it is the two examiners i'm thinking of
1 is a heli chief examiner
1 is a heli club examiner
and the other chap wiz has an A cert in heli's

the chief examiner has seen in the 1 club i fly at a 3g and a skookum sk360 (2 axis fbl gyro, with no self righting functions) being used

the club examiner will have flown a sceadu 50

[airwolf]

I recently took my Heli examiner test with the South of England's chief examiner and as part of my test I oversaw another person taking their B test on a FBL 550. I think the BMFA guidelines on this subject are very clear.


Raptor 50 Titan SE, Raptor 50 BeastX FBL, TRex 500 BeastX FBL, TRex 250, Morley MXB