The whole 'Paypal as gift' issue

[Weebl]

I notice that this forum likes to carry out most transactions with Paypal being sent as a 'gift' After all, why not, nobody likes paying Paypal fees if they don't have to?

I did a bit of research because I had heard Paypal could get a bit iffy with lots of 'gifts' being sent and received and they did not like it.

I found that the whole idea of Paypal is to make money off Ebay, and payments to registered companies. If you are a private individual buying off another private individual you can, in accordance with Paypals terms of usage and instructions click the 'personal' tab and select 'other' or even 'personal payment owed' and send the payment without paying fees.

They are happy as Larry about this and you are not circumventing their policies like they might get sniffy about if you send and receive as 'gift' all the time.

Has anybody done this before and had any problems? I have done it twice now in the past 2 weeks and heard nothing back?

[Mark_T]

Worth remembering that these 'free' methods are only free if you have funds in your account already, they will incur charges if they have to pull the funds from your bank or card to cover it.

Also there is no come back if you have problems with your purchase as you've told PayPal this isn't a commercial transaction so not easy/impossible to get the funds returned by PayPal if there is a dispute.

Aside from that should all be fine.

[Weebl]

I think if your Paypal account is linked to your bank account it is still free, it is only card payments that incur charges.

The comeback thing is a given though, I am talking about private seller and private buyer but actually logging it correctly on Paypal as a payment rather than as a gift and still not paying fees.

I was just wondering where the whole 'gift' thing came about when you can actually call it what it is, a private sale, and still pay no fees.

[J-S-Q]

Also there is no come back if you have problems with your purchase as you've told PayPal this isn't a commercial transaction so not easy/impossible to get the funds returned by PayPal if there is a dispute.

A very good point.

[scallybert]

{ Also there is no come back if you have problems with your purchase as you've told PayPal this isn't a commercial transaction [...] }

A very good point.

But presumably also true if the money is 'gifted' ?

[PsiLo]

Last year, paypal froze my account with over £400 in it after I received 15 or so payments as a gift in a very short time. It took 6 weeks before they finally released my account and only after a lot of hassle.

I will not accept paypal as a gift any more unless it is truly just personal monies owed. Likewise I do not send payment by gift generally, I would rather pay the additional fees and be covered, as I lost out when I sent payment for a graphics card as a gift but never received the card Paypal won't entertain a claim as no goods can be involved in a personal transaction!

[StreetDragster]

Copied from another forum-

I recently sold a rifle I'd advertised elsewhere, mentioning "PayPal + 4%".

Buyer was a 'newbie' with 3 posts, all on my ad.

The buyer's offer included paying me the £300 as a PayPal 'gift' payment to save himself the 4%.
I accepted this and he duly paid me, entering his name & address in the PayPal comments box.
When the payment arrived via PayPal email, there was no 'Postage address - confirmed' as you get with a normal 'purchase' payment as opposed to a gift. A confirmed address shows that the buyer has been verified at the address shown.
It also came with the following standard warning:
"Reversals:
Please be aware that your payment can still be reversed, (e.g. if it is subject to a chargeback), even after you have posted the item to your buyer. Complying with PayPal's protection programmes and following the trading guidelines, in our Security Centre helps to protect you from things like chargebacks."

I telephoned PayPal and they told me that as the payment was a gift there could be no goods changing hands in PayPal's view and so I would not be protected by PayPal's seller protection policy if the 'sports equipment' (as I told them) went missing. Additionally as there was no verified address sent with the payment (because there's no need for one as no goods are being sent in PayPal's view!) the buyer could have paid with a stolen credit card, using any other non-verified address he cared to. Even if not stolen he could still claim a charge back to his card and I could not dispute via PayPal as there cannot have been any goods involved in a gift payment.

I advised the buyer, with respect, that this could be a scam and was about to ask for him to pay the proper way with PayPal, as a purchase adding the 4%, when I thought that this would still be a problem if the rifle went missing as how could I claim for a rifle when PayPal would close my account if I mentioned that I'd had payment for one. This is similar to using Parcel Force, who don't carry air rifles, and then expecting to be able to claim if one went missing.

In the end the purchaser was very understanding, accepting he was a newbie, drove down and paid cash so all was well.

The moral?
1) Don't accept PayPal gifts unless you know and trust the person paying. You can send the item and then they receive a charge back to their card.
2) Be aware that in any dispute you cannot involve PayPal with any 'restricted' item in their eyes, i.e. airgun.



Matt

[Weebl]

Last year, paypal froze my account with over £400 in it after I received 15 or so payments as a gift in a very short time. It took 6 weeks before they finally released my account and only after a lot of hassle.

I will not accept paypal as a gift any more unless it is truly just personal monies owed. Likewise I do not send payment by gift generally, I would rather pay the additional fees and be covered, as I lost out when I sent payment for a graphics card as a gift but never received the card Paypal won't entertain a claim as no goods can be involved in a personal transaction!

This is my whole point, you don't have to pay as 'gift' when Paypal will happily let you pay, private seller to private buyer, as 'Personal Payment Owed' for a private transaction and still not charge you fees.

[LipolyGone]

I would also not be happy linking my Bank account to my paypal account
just so I can send gift payements or personal payements.
Imagine the hassle if someone hacked your paypal account.
Its fairly easy to get a card withdrawn from use but imagine
if you had to shut your bank account, what a lot of hassle that would be.
martin

[jamesb72]

As far as I can see asking for paypal as gift is dodgy as hell, it means the buyer has no protection from a dodgy seller, and probably the same the other way.

My paypal account is funded by credit card (for my protection - you'd be mad to do anything else IMHO), so I cannot send money without fee's, only issue is if I pay them or the seller does.

Adding fee's to a price is not allowed under ebay/paypal rules, and I always think its dodgy anyway - surely you should factor this into price or sell it for cash locally (and no doubt get more than 4% less for it).

As a forum, I don't think dodgy activity should be encouraged, as it reflects badly - its no different to a pub turning a blind eye to people selling stolen goods etc in my view - harsh perhaps.

I also get annoyed with people saying 'everyone selling on here is legit', I've bought a few things, most I'm very happy with and sellers were perfectly honest and fair, two where frankly the seller was not honest, and ignored emails afterwards so I had to sort problems out myself which was very naughty.

I'm happy to win some lose some, but get annoyed by the pretence this is some friendly group who won't rip each other off.

[LaurenceGough]

With respected forum members or friends Paypal gift is great, instant money transfer.

Otherwise bank transfer I feel is best, no fees and pretty fast (sometimes same day).

The only time I'm paying Paypal fees is when I am buying something off the net from a shop.

[Weebl]

As a forum, I don't think dodgy activity should be encouraged, as it reflects badly - its no different to a pub turning a blind eye to people selling stolen goods etc in my view - harsh perhaps.

Which as I have pointed out several times in this thread is unnecessary because, in line with Paypals rules you can, private buyer to private seller send money fee free and have it logged as a private sale.

That was my whole point in starting this thread, to ask why the 'gift' thing has become the norm when it is against Paypals policies, results in no protection for the buyer, is open to abuse and a completely compliant, alternative, fee free method exists with just one different radio button click.

Paypal don't mind you sending and receiving money fee free as a private individual to another private individual for a private transaction. I don't see how I can say it clearer?

Edited to clarify ** Anything in the 'personal Payment tab is not protected via Paypal, fair enough if they are not charging you for using, but it is not against their policy to use the service in that way, that is my whole point if you are going to 'gift' anyway, why risk Paypal getting sniffy?

[StreetDragster]

Maybe a statement to further highlight that should go into the rules for buying and selling?

Matt

[Planehazza]

I think if your Paypal account is linked to your bank account it is still free, it is only card payments that incur charges.

The comeback thing is a given though, I am talking about private seller and private buyer but actually logging it correctly on Paypal as a payment rather than as a gift and still not paying fees.

I was just wondering where the whole 'gift' thing came about when you can actually call it what it is, a private sale, and still pay no fees.

Yeah I have send a good few (about 10) gift payments in the last few months, and I've never incurred any charges - the recipient has always received 100% of the sum too. I have mine linked to my bank account.

[Mikej]

I just pay the fees - they are providing a service, surely it is reasonable to pay a few quid for it