What power plant(s) do you enjoy?

[philipjdall]

I don't think this is meant to be nitro v electric guys... We've done that one to death.

Maj, as for your original question, it's headspeed that is the killer on electric. We don't have to run a bonkers headspeed or a bonkers powerplant, as seems to have become the fashion. Overspeeds et al. I think flying electric makes us lazy, as you can ram the stick into any corner and the heli will do it (granted for 3 minutes only!). With nitro you need to be more graceful on the collective and as a result i think we fly them smoother.

I try and apply these principles when flying electric (and whilst I'm not Tareq, I'm also not just hovering!). Slightly lower headspeeds (1900/200rpm rather than 2200/2300) and less stick banging and I consistently get over 5 minutes a flight (with the 30% warning) on my logo 700. And thats a supposedly 'heavy' heli. It moves! Motor is also a pyro 750 and running on a kosmik 160, opti 12s 5000's.

Just saying.

p

[Guest]

I don't think this is meant to be nitro v electric guys... We've done that one to death.

Maj, as for your original question, it's headspeed that is the killer on electric. We don't have to run a bonkers headspeed or a bonkers powerplant, as seems to have become the fashion. Overspeeds et al. I think flying electric makes us lazy, as you can ram the stick into any corner and the heli will do it (granted for 3 minutes only!). With nitro you need to be more graceful on the collective and as a result i think we fly them smoother.

I try and apply these principles when flying electric (and whilst I'm not Tareq, I'm also not just hovering!). Slightly lower headspeeds (1900/200rpm rather than 2200/2300) and less stick banging and I consistently get over 5 minutes a flight (with the 30% warning) on my logo 700. And thats a supposedly 'heavy' heli. It moves! Motor is also a pyro 750 and running on a kosmik 160, opti 12s 5000's.

Just saying.

p

I can't give you an honest answer to the headspeed I worked from 50% up to a speed I felt happy at which was 80% (in v control). It wasn't crazy high I would say 2000-2100 at a guess which would coincide with the figures I got from the Mr Mel Headspeed calculator. Running Helix 715's and had to go from 105-115 to get a decent tail (actually superb now). Flying style was not altered from what I would do on the Nitro and that achieved me the said flight time. I will have a play around with pinions and I have some Blend 435 4.35V lipos coming so see how they work out 5100mah @ 690g each so might eek another 30 seconds at a guess. If i'm right as didn't pay much attention to G's packs mine could be 300g lighter which will help loads. If I can get to 5 mins without too much compromise I would be pretty happy.

MJ

[philipjdall]

I agree MJ, as long as you can get 5 mins then that's ok.

Very interested to hear how those blends work out... Was reading about them the other day and am tempted to try them. Please keep us posted!

[Guest]

I agree MJ, as long as you can get 5 mins then that's ok.

Very interested to hear how those blends work out... Was reading about them the other day and am tempted to try them. Please keep us posted!

Will do should know soon enough arrive here on Wednesday. Be sooner but Bank Holiday holding them up.

MJ

[Phill. H]

When it comes to enjoying myself- powerplant has to be leccy, no insane headspeeds for me run 6S or 12S set ups in helis and fly them more in the style of my planks 500 size 5-6mins 700 size depending on batts 6-9 mins, just charge turn up and fly no mess !
If the question had been what powerplant is my favourite the answer from me would be different to the one above.

[Varelco]

I can't give you an honest answer to the headspeed I worked from 50% up to a speed I felt happy at which was 80% (in v control). It wasn't crazy high I would say 2000-2100 at a guess ...Running Helix 715's and had to go from 105-115 to get a decent tail (actually superb now).
MJ

Personally I'd consider this high, swinging 715s at over 2k rpm, bigger tails (often over looked) is gonna crank up the amp consumption.

Power consumption is exponential when increasing headspeed:

The logger data show that the efficiency of the blades decreases rapidly with increasing head speed, so that most of the energy is wasted. "Hovering at one position" 570W is required at 1300 rpm at the rotor and at 1850 rpm you already need 1000W. At more than 2100 rpm 1500W are required, i. e. nearly the triple amount, although you do nothing more than hovering.

[ady]

now I gotta drive further to the field , its nitro at present , only had too flights so far though , gotta re-train the brain to slow down

[Guest]

Personally I'd consider this high, swinging 715s at over 2k rpm, bigger tails (often over looked) is gonna crank up the amp consumption.

Power consumption is exponential when increasing headspeed:

These settings were what was required to get it to fly similarly to my E700 Nitro. A TDR 1700rpm is a different animal to a Forza at the same headspeed in my experience. TDR was great at that Forza isn't needs the extra guess you've just got to overcome mass and to achieve it kills the flight time. I'm sure I could get 6 mins by flying at 1600rpm problem is it would be so pedestrian just wouldn't enjoy it. Low rpm Personally I'm fine with whilst it's spooling up, 2000ish on a 90 I would consider fairly reasonable, 2200 up I would consider high guess it's all perspective.

I think when my packs arrive and save 300g the headspeed can drop a bit and might then try 695's. 105 tails didn't hold great at full pitch transitions 115 were spot on, could be 110's is the sweet spot.


MJ

[Varelco]

I can't imagine you to have to be so drastic dropping headspeed to hit 5 minutes. Hence quoting Jans findings when developing the TDR, dropping HS off at higher headspeeds has a larger effect on power consumption. If you did look at 1600rpm for example you would be pushing flight times out to nitro standards easily, so you wont need to that low. You are also trying to match 2 completely different models, if you had an E700 electric as well as the nitro I'm sure it wouldn't take much effort to get 5 min flights for the same performance, its noticeable lighter than a Forza and you wouldn't have to fit a huge motor in it.

There are alot more variables affecting electrics than Nitros, its just getting the right combination. I think you have done everything you can though, lighter packs less HS should sort you out.

[Guest]

Your right just finding the happy balance and Prob going wrong aiming for similar. Guess you get so tuned in to a model you fly all the time it's hard not to so maybe the point is the most enjoyable Heli you fly is the one you fly the most. Bring on some warmer weather be quite nice then standing in a field changing things around.

MJ

[trillian]

Your right just finding the happy balance and Prob going wrong aiming for similar. Guess you get so tuned in to a model you fly all the time it's hard not to so maybe the point is the most enjoyable Heli you fly is the one you fly the most. Bring on some warmer weather be quite nice then standing in a field changing things around.

MJ

I came into electrics having been used to certain headspeeds with nitro (and flybars as well). So my mindset was always about aiming for around +/-11 and 1900 in idle-1. When I would setup an electric heli I would keep playing with the headspeed until it felt right to me. But when I got the Triabolo I took a different approach and tried just keeping the headspeed where it was and just upping the pitch range and this worked great (for me anyway, my flying is as smooth as possible). The reason it works so well is the electric motors can crank out the torque on demand, so they have no problem with 14 degrees of pitch whereas with nitro you have to keep the engine in the powerband and use the inertia in the blades for those times you need to load up the head.

Obviously it's a very personal preference and flying style thing. After the success with the Triabolo I took a similar approach re-thinking all my big electrics. The Rave (which I sold a while back) worked very well at about 1500/1600 with the 710 FAI blades and 7/8 minutes was no problem. I think I had about +/- 14.5 or so. The TDR and Faifa are running at about 1300/1400 and they get away with it because they're very light. The Triabolo is a bit on the heavy side but it only needs about 1300 headspeed so I still get 8 minutes.

Anyway, that has been my experience and it works for me, basically using the reserve torque available with electric instead of blade inertia and just running a lot more pitch range. I setup the gearing so that my normal idle-up headspeed is in a comfortable % on the governor but if I want I can always flip to idle-2 for short bursts of another 200 rpm or so if I want a few minutes of speed.

[Planehazza]

Personally, I wouldn't mind 5 min flights if I didn't have to keep charging the packs up each time. If I want a long day's session, I take my nitro and electric, but if I know I'm going to going to get 3 or 4 flights, I only take my electric for the "plug and play"ness.

[George J]

I loved flying my TDR at 1700 HS, was lovely and still made good power. The Forza most certainly isnt a TDR at 1700 HS so just cannot compare the two at all.

As for the E700, I think 1950 with 690mm blades was probably the sweet spot when I was flying mine but that was for 5 mins max with 5500 packs. Bottom line for me is yes you can slow the headspeed down, use lighter packs etc etc, we all know this and doesn't really need saying, but that is a compromise when your flying style prefers 1950 HS or more.

[hedge]

A trip to the field with a 90 for me is

1 x table
1 x small box of spares - washers , nuts, screws etc for either n or e
1 x tool box - always
1 x TX case

the above are common to both/all power plants

nitro has a box of LiPos in an ammo box, starter and a gallon
leccy has a box of LiPos

e requires me to ***k around with the canopy each 4:30 where's n no worries

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e gives you ultimate power and if your competing then nothing else will do. E also gives longer flight times if your prepared to bore yourself and everyone around you, however for the sweet spot that most of us live in then n gives power and flight time and if your a flier (weekly or every two weeks) rather than a poster then it's pretty straightforward to keep n flying. If you only fly once every few months then E is for you as it will sit for months and perform exactly how you left it.

[trillian]

I loved flying my TDR at 1700 HS, was lovely and still made good power. The Forza most certainly isnt a TDR at 1700 HS so just cannot compare the two at all.

As for the E700, I think 1950 with 690mm blades was probably the sweet spot when I was flying mine but that was for 5 mins max with 5500 packs. Bottom line for me is yes you can slow the headspeed down, use lighter packs etc etc, we all know this and doesn't really need saying, but that is a compromise when your flying style prefers 1950 HS or more.

Well I did make the two caveats that the TDR is very light and also that lowering the headspeed may not suit some flying styles. I'm just saying that's how I have changed my approach to electric. I remember something that Laurence Gough said a couple years ago about nitro, and I had never thought of it this way. He said something to the effect that the (nitro) fuel 'doesn't care how hard you fly'. I am more than happy to fly nitro at 2000 headspeed for the whole flight.