Auto's how high for it to be a proper Auto?

[electricsceadu]

this auto'd in dead mans curve when the engine siezed up

r22 04 2013.jpg

[dbull46]

Hi all. May I join in on this conversation and ask a question.

I have never done an auto for real only on the sim. They say its very difficult to do it with a 450 so I don't won't to try with that one. I do have a Raptor 30 but this is pretty heavy so I was thinking, if I simulated an auto under power would it be anything like a real one?
Just to get the feel of it.

Cheers

[Jez N]

Hi all. May I join in on this conversation and ask a question.

I have never done an auto for real only on the sim. They say its very difficult to do it with a 450 so I don't won't to try with that one. I do have a Raptor 30 but this is pretty heavy so I was thinking, if I simulated an auto under power would it be anything like a real one?
Just to get the feel of it.

Cheers

Well you can practice your approach and how it would feel regards inputs and heli movement. But as for the feeling of how the heli responds falling against air resistance, no it wont feel the same.

But as for making sure you dont have the 'oh shit i hit T/H what have i done ----->dumb thumb' moment. I reckon practicing how you are going to approach a landing spot is probably a good idea.

[J3DI]

Hi all. May I join in on this conversation and ask a question.

I have never done an auto for real only on the sim. They say its very difficult to do it with a 450 so I don't won't to try with that one. I do have a Raptor 30 but this is pretty heavy so I was thinking, if I simulated an auto under power would it be anything like a real one?
Just to get the feel of it.

Cheers

Yes, this would be a good way to start:-

Set throttle hold so that engine is high enough to barely hover the heli, then practise from your favoured side doing approaches at good height - select hold and proceed to maintain forward speed, slight nose up attitude and reduce height to land in front of you. Then repeat! As you grow more confident also try your opposite approach side. Then continue to repeat but start reducing throttle speed when in throttle hold, just a little. This will allow you to experience autorotation mode before you realise it and give you a feel for the headspeed dropping away as you land . What you should prepare for is once the engine speed is no longer high enough to maintain headspeed, you will need to approach with a higher descent rate and then shortly before landing, as you increase collective to land this will increase your headspeed ( called the flare ) allowing you more time to correct the attitude and land.

[smokingtommy]

its always best to fly the auto flight path quite a few times fly of to the side of you and do a 45 decree landing (so the heli is moving forward and you descend down till in front of you ) once you think you are happy with this the next step is to have a look at your throttle hold and make sure its all set right you could even have the settings so the heli is getting a little power to help you and also check that your gyro gain is the same as your idle ups ,
the next step is to hover in front of you about 3/4 feet of the ground and hit throttle hold and get a feel for it floating down and after you are happy with this start flying the auto path again and right at the end hit throttle hold so now the heli is moving forwards and you get a feel of learning to flair at the end and land

[dbull46]

WOW!
What a response. Thanks guys.
You've given me some good guidance to get started with.
I am going to get some more hrs in before I have a go, just to get a better feel for her then look out!
Commiserate or celebrate I will post it up when I do.

Thanks again

[electricsceadu]

Yes, this would be a good way to start:-

Set throttle hold so that engine is high enough to barely hover the heli, then practise from your favoured side doing approaches at good height - select hold and proceed to maintain forward speed, slight nose up attitude and reduce height to land in front of you. Then repeat! As you grow more confident also try your opposite approach side. Then continue to repeat but start reducing throttle speed when in throttle hold, just a little. This will allow you to experience autorotation mode before you realise it and give you a feel for the headspeed dropping away as you land . What you should prepare for is once the engine speed is no longer high enough to maintain headspeed, you will need to approach with a higher descent rate and then shortly before landing, as you increase collective to land this will increase your headspeed ( called the flare ) allowing you more time to correct the attitude and land.

just to add to this
practise powered landing in normal flight mode with as little throttle/pitch as possible
this will help when you start to use hold

[dbull46]

just to add to this
practise powered landing in normal flight mode with as little throttle/pitch as possible
this will help when you start to use hold

I will have a go at that.
Cheers

[pgkevet]

I'm sure I went about it all wrong. Yes, I'd practiced them on the sim but when it came to trying them for real I started by investing in a few spares to have by and take soem pressure off.. then hiting throttle cut (nowt like really committing yourself!) at a couple of feet and hold it,let it settle.. then from about 4 and later 6 feet. Then I decided I wasn't brave neough for full height ones straight off so igored the theory of a dead mans curve and wen to about 15 feet ( all this with a 600N). From 15 feet the next stage wasn't ging to make any reall difference soI picked a handy height and distance from a goodly length of runway and wen about 30 feet high.
did clatter a few in and land a few short..indeed I still tend to clatter them in my holding off a tad too long and losing all headspeed as they land but that does no damage apart from risking chipping blade roots and small boom dents.
I never actually needed the spares due to auto's on the 600N - had to by some once after mucking one up on the 700N.

Most amazing when you do them is how far these bigger helis will hold off and glide. Most impressive was a forced auto on my gasser.. it is heavy, has 710 scott greys and once floated some 40-50 yards in ground effect to avoid landing on rough terrain that would have torn up the skids.

My reason for a full switch-off was truly because I tedn to be late making decisions.. keep trying too long.. and was worried i might power up just as it's making a dud touchdown and really wreck stuff under power or that full power might kick the tail out and disorientate.

I'm comfortable enough now with upright autos and the only time I use TH is when I'm playing doing a batch of them to save restarting.

[dbull46]

Hi pgkevet
Thanks for sharing your learning experience on autos.
After reading it I thought perhaps maybe it would be an idea to change my c/f blades for the spare set of woodies that I've got just to save any undue expenses.
Will woodies be strong enough to withstand the stresses of this type of landing. They are the stock set for the Raptor 30

[electricsceadu]

yes the woodies will be strong enough
but if you bend them check the prices of all types of blades
and buy the cheapest


and my sceadu has a few dings in the boom from a few (10 in one day) forced inverted auto's
on a couple of times i lost too much head speed and the blades folded back on a bumpy landing
i did cure the engine from stopping inverted

[dbull46]

That's great and thanks for the tip about the blades too.

Glad you have sorted out your inverted engine cut out problem. Its because of the fear and panic if the engine should cut out on me is why I want to practise auto's so if it should !!! happen, then I'm hopping by then, instinct will kick in and bring it down in one piece. But in a the real world he says! lol

Cheers

[J3DI]

I remember practising unpowered approaches and how much of a buzz it was! Killing the throttle on a perfectly good helicopter was the hardest part and at first I'd auto in as low as possible before flicking out of TH and climbing back out. That moment you're waiting for the engine to start screaming again and spin the blades up! Was an anti climax the first time I actually decided to complete the auto rather than flick out...

[pgkevet]

..for ,y 600N I bought HK booms/blades/skids for autos... they work as well in my hands and i just keep using them. Heck why crash £70 blades when you can crash £30 ones :-)

[dbull46]

Thats the difference between the people or can't cut the mustard.
Well see where I fit in on that list. Lol