2012 F3C Comps - Anyone fancy it??

[KnifeEdge]

I think u just need BMFA insurance for the normal comps, but a B for the nationals.

[Jamin_00]

If I were to do it I think I would approach it in the same manner as you James. As you know thats more my style of flying so it would be a nice and relaxed way of entering in to the world of comps and nothing to serious. Just to get on the flight line in front of the judges would be stressful enough no doubt at Pete says so if I approach with "a bit of fun" attitude I think it will take a lot of the stress away from it for me.

Plus like you say as you can fly FBL now is a bonus as I'm all FBL

I do wonder if there is any merit to Steve's comment on different scoring, from what I can find there is no mention of any differences I think its more a case of going with the times.

But yea, could be a great laugh seeing me trying to compete in the clubmans

[Mark_T]

I do wonder if there is any merit to Steve's comment on different scoring, from what I can find there is no mention of any differences I think its more a case of going with the times.

At the moment the use of FBL is all a bit 'unofficial' so no other changes in scoring or classes just an attempt to get more people to turn up and take part.

[Steve]

Flybarless systems are her and they're here to stay, but they do take away a certain amount of the meticulous setup that F3C pilots strive to achieve. I know a well setup machine in the hands of the Steve Roberts or Mark Christys of this world will hover pretty darn well, but when it comes down to us mere mortals, a flybarless machine will hover pretty much bang-on out of the box against a flybarred machine that will need many corrective inputs. Also when you go up for the aerobatics, the flybarless heli will most likely roll straight as an arrow as the gyros are controlling the inputs and making the adjustments through the manoeuvre, but a flybarred heli is a lot harder to achieve this level of accuracy.

Hence, the suggestion that the two classes should compete and be scored separately - it's unlikely to be a level playing field at Sportsmans and Clubmans levels. I think at the top level, there would be little or no difference, maybe even with the flybarred machines working better, but those guys are heading towards being pros, where the rest of us are hobbyists.

I would feel cheated to be working my nuts off to try and hold a solid hover with a flybarred heli, only to score less than a flybarless heli that just sits there thumbs off.

I know, I need to practice more..........



or go flybarless!

[pchristy]

Speaking to Mark (who has a flybar-less machine as well), he reckons that the flybar-less setup is no where near as good in the hovering.

A properly set-up flybar can be made to compensate for gusts - something that has been pretty common at all the events this year! A flybar-less one can't. It might not change attitude, but it WILL move about.

It takes a lot of time and effort to get a flybar system "just so", but when you do, when a gust hits it, the heli just bobs up and dawn a bit - it barely budges from the spot, which of course, is just what you want in F3C.....

[Steve]

Speaking to Mark (who has a flybar-less machine as well), he reckons that the flybar-less setup is no where near as good in the hovering.

A properly set-up flybar can be made to compensate for gusts - something that has been pretty common at all the events this year! A flybar-less one can't. It might not change attitude, but it WILL move about.

It takes a lot of time and effort to get a flybar system "just so", but when you do, when a gust hits it, the heli just bobs up and dawn a bit - it barely budges from the spot, which of course, is just what you want in F3C.....

Yes Pete, all tried and tested theory and universally accepted I think, and well within the capabilities of the top flyers like Mark.

But, at the entry levels it's a different story. We've all got to start and learn somewhere, and I know that a flybarless heli will hover and fly better than a flybarred heli straight out of the box. And, if any tuning is required to the flybarless, then it's a case of tweaking the software and radio settings - quite quick and easy I guess and at no additional cost. If I want to try different settings on my flybarred heli, then I have to buy different paddles, buy different length flybars, buy different other stuff, as well as trying different settings on the head mixing options (if the heli even has any).

I talk to Mark regularly and have tried for years to get a flybarred heli to hover in gusty conditions 'hands off' and have never 100% managed it yet even with all his freely given and gratefully received advice. So this Holy Grail of a perfect hovering FAI machine still seems to be someway off to me. I do have one 50 size heli (JR Vibe) that does it better than any of my others, and guess what? That was by luck, not judgement. It just worked from the day I built it with no alterations at all.

[jwatts007]

Its about who flies them the best not the machine, and having a nice time, and I like seeing others flying there helis..........

[pchristy]

I hear what you are saying Steve, but the point I was trying to make is that, for F3C, the situation isn't quite so cut and dried. I, too, have spent a lot of time trying for the elusive "sweet spot" with a model, and come pretty close at times, but not as close as Mark!

But speaking to some of the guys out at the World Champs, many of them were of the same opinion - a flybarless machine will not "out hover" a flybar UNLESS it is fitted with pitot tubes to measure and anticipate gusts. And since these would constitute an "external reference", they would not be permitted under the rules.....

I'm not anti-flybar - heaven knows, I've been flying without one on and off since the late 70s! But neither do I accept the argument that it is the ultimate solution to "Life, The Universe and Everything"!

[KnifeEdge]

So who we got interested so far?

KnifeEdge
JWatts007
Jamin_00
Trillian
Spanner
Choppertastic
Bikeflier

Not sure about Steve?

Will make it more fun, with a good group of people.

[Steve]

Not sure about Steve?

Lol

I want to do it, I really do, have been chatting about it with Mark on MSN for several years. I often go to the events at Tring and Gumley etc if I'm allowed out for the day.

Problem for me is nerves - I physically shake under pressure when doing stuff like this and trying to fly a heli when your thumbs are jangling about like a bag of frogs doesn't work very well. When I did my B test a few years ago, I ran out of fuel before completing the schedule because I spent so much time in between each manoeuvre landing, sitting the heli down on the ground, and getting me thumbs back before doing the next move! Got there in the end though after a refill and passed! Not sure a refill is allowed in a FAI competition round!!!! Lol.

[KnifeEdge]

Lol

I want to do it, I really do, have been chatting about it with Mark on MSN for several years. I often go to the events at Tring and Gumley etc if I'm allowed out for the day.

Problem for me is nerves - I physically shake under pressure when doing stuff like this and trying to fly a heli when your thumbs are jangling about like a bag of frogs doesn't work very well. When I did my B test a few years ago, I ran out of fuel before completing the schedule because I spent so much time in between each manoeuvre landing, sitting the heli down on the ground, and getting me thumbs back before doing the next move! Got there in the end though after a refill and passed! Not sure a refill is allowed in a FAI competition round!!!! Lol.

Just get up and have a go. The worst that can happen is you don't win.

I find if you treat things too seriously, u end up being more nervous and don't do so well anyway.

Like most competitions once u get the first round done you will be less nervous and start to enjoy it. (and u will have a laugh!!! )

[Steve]

(and u will have a laugh!!! )

Who me?

Maybe just a slim chance!

[KnifeEdge]

Who me?

Maybe just a slim chance!

Lol. Will put Steve down as well then.

[trillian]

A while back I recall seeing a few comps where there were so few pilots and it starting me thinking "hmmmm, if there are only
two pilots in the event the worst I could do is come in 2nd" :-)

I think maybe I'd fly one with the Trex 500 (if it's not too windy) then I have a built-in excuse for not winning :-) (I would be hoping
to be competing against 90 size helis, preferably FBL as well)

[jwatts007]

Lol

I want to do it, I really do, have been chatting about it with Mark on MSN for several years. I often go to the events at Tring and Gumley etc if I'm allowed out for the day.

Problem for me is nerves - I physically shake under pressure when doing stuff like this and trying to fly a heli when your thumbs are jangling about like a bag of frogs doesn't work very well. When I did my B test a few years ago, I ran out of fuel before completing the schedule because I spent so much time in between each manoeuvre landing, sitting the heli down on the ground, and getting me thumbs back before doing the next move! Got there in the end though after a refill and passed! Not sure a refill is allowed in a FAI competition round!!!! Lol.

Same here I just go too bits, I used too play darts could put 3 darts in any treble round the board, but when it came too a comp I went too bits............