Wake up call!!

[450man]

That is another point I haven't picked up on yet... does anyone fly in rate mode? When would I want to... or would I? Or does everyone now always fly in heading hold mode?

[maddog7]

Never fly in rate mode

I think your issue with the Trex is defo more to do with the model than the type of stabilisation. As previously mentioned as things get bigger the differences get smaller and at about 500 size you start to notice the benefits of FBL more.
I bought a FBL model because I had to get out of nitro (it makes me ill) and if I wanted duration from a leccy FBL was a little better.
I've not looked back, FBL really is the way for me. I do agree that learning on a FB might be a good investment.
I think a bigger model whether it's FB or FBL would be a good move for you.
Cheers.
D

[milly0812]

Wake up call!!

Does it all really matter ? Flybar/ flybar less, rate/ HH, nitro / electric. If you're not likely to use a flybar why learn to fly with one ? I can't see it making a better pilot of you, just learn to fly fbl. I can drive a manual gearbox but I like automatic. Doesn't make me lazy just let's me enjoy the experience more than I otherwise would ;-)

[gazmk2]

Dudes the point I was trying to make was that because I learnt on flybarless, when presented with a flybarred machine I suddenly found myself back at square 1 again! Its a bit like learning to drive an auto then jumping into a manual! And not everybody can afford to just stay with flybarless! The only way i managed is was by swapping an aircraft for a 2nd hand heli so I had no choice between flybarred or flybarless.

[ModelGuard.Com]

Dudes the point I was trying to make was that because I learnt on flybarless, when presented with a flybarred machine I suddenly found myself back at square 1 again! Its a bit like learning to drive an auto then jumping into a manual! And not everybody can afford to just stay with flybarless! The only way i managed is was by swapping an aircraft for a 2nd hand heli so I had no choice between flybarred or flybarless.

Maybe so, but we want a heated Flybar versus Flybarless argument! :-)

[JoeBailey]

Wake up call!!

Heated flybars? The future of flying perhaps?

I fly both and both are great for very different reasons.

[cupracing]

Wake up call!!

Flybar is crap, why would you want to make learning more difficult for yourself.

[SaneAdam]

Your logic is flawed in my view. Why would you ever be presented with a flybar helicopter unless you buy one out of choice for whatever reason. I understand what you are saying about the fact that you learned on a fbl. But flybars are dead. You dont need to catch up on flybarred flying as it is gone. You are causing yourself problems to try and master something that is redundant for the most part.

[tomatwalden]

Your logic is flawed in my view. Why would you ever be presented with a flybar helicopter unless you buy one out of choice for whatever reason. I understand what you are saying about the fact that you learned on a fbl. But flybars are dead. You dont need to catch up on flybarred flying as it is gone. You are causing yourself problems to try and master something that is redundant for the most part.

So here's my view ...

At one end of the computer-assisted scale, there's no electronic stabilisation whatsoever - nothing, nada. I believe the first RC helicopters had physical (ie. spinning) gyros on the tail, but you could liken this to "pure" flying.

At the other end of the scale, you have drones that fly themselves. You program in a flight path, and via the magic of GPS, off the helicopter goes.

Flybars and flybarless systems are in my opinion, different points along that scale - reflecting differing amounts of "pure flying" from "computer assisted". Some people want the "pure" feel - they don't want to have a micro-chip correcting things for them. Sure, the HH gyro is very popular, as is FBL systems. But to say they are dead as a statement is somewhat broad-sweeping I think and pre-supposes others needs/wants.

Clearly, FBL works for you as you like the precise feel that a FBL system gives you - effectively ruling out alot of the effect of the wind. Not everyone wants that! The death knell for flybars will be if not enough people want them to warrant their manufacture. However, clearly from recent developments from both Align and Blade, we're not at that stage yet. If we ever will be, only time will tell..

[ModelGuard.Com]

You are correct to a certain point. What you are forgetting is that the scale you talk of has moving end points. The bottom end of the scale started back in the 70's with no tail stabilisation at all, then mechanical gyros, then piezo gyros, then rate gyros, then heading hold. The bottom end of the scale in two to three years wont include heading hold gyros, they will be defunct.
How many people have ever tried flying with no tail gyro. lol not many

So here's my view ...

At one end of the computer-assisted scale, there's no electronic stabilisation whatsoever - nothing, nada. I believe the first RC helicopters had physical (ie. spinning) gyros on the tail, but you could liken this to "pure" flying.

At the other end of the scale, you have drones that fly themselves. You program in a flight path, and via the magic of GPS, off the helicopter goes.

Flybars and flybarless systems are in my opinion, different points along that scale - reflecting differing amounts of "pure flying" from "computer assisted". Some people want the "pure" feel - they don't want to have a micro-chip correcting things for them. Sure, the HH gyro is very popular, as is FBL systems. But to say they are dead as a statement is somewhat broad-sweeping I think and pre-supposes others needs/wants.

Clearly, FBL works for you as you like the precise feel that a FBL system gives you - effectively ruling out alot of the effect of the wind. Not everyone wants that! The death knell for flybars will be if not enough people want them to warrant their manufacture. However, clearly from recent developments from both Align and Blade, we're not at that stage yet. If we ever will be, only time will tell..

[tomatwalden]

You are correct to a certain point. What you are forgetting is that the scale you talk of has moving end points. The bottom end of the scale started back in the 70's with no tail stabilisation at all, then mechanical gyros, then piezo gyros, then rate gyros, then heading hold. The bottom end of the scale in two to three years wont include heading hold gyros, they will be defunct.
How many people have ever tried flying with no tail gyro. lol not many

Agreed - my point was quite generalised, but you're right - technology is a fast-moving beast ... Fundamentally, I think careful wording of views, especially on an internet-forum is key. eg, how do both of these statements come across?

1/. "Don't buy a flybar as flybars are dead technology"
2/. "Personally, I believe that flybars are on the wane, and will possibly be unavailable in a few years"

For me, statement 2 puts forward the same view, but in a way that is less likely to cause offence, or start yet another argument of FB v FBL. Personally, I like healthy debate, but sometimes I think it's wise to word things carefully on a forum where nuances of opinion can easy be mis-understood.

PS. Happy new year everyone!

[tomatwalden]

Flybar is crap, why would you want to make learning more difficult for yourself.

Horses are crap, why would anyone want to learn to ride a horse when a car goes much faster.

[jimmyhorns]

This debate (essentially a poorly disguised FB vs FBL debate/arguement), happens about once a week, maybe once a fortnight on here.

FBL is certainly easier to fly IMO, and I fly both.

Which is better, well thats down to the person who is flying. Arguements that the flybar is 'dead' or 'old technology' are pretty moot IMO, as it is a case of preference.

What is a curious arguement is which is better for a beginner to start on. As the OP mentions, he struggled with the flybar hover and circuit, but I'd bet a good amount that someone who learnt on a FB machine wouldnt have had the same trouble on a FBL machine.

[cupracing]

Horses are crap, why would anyone want to learn to ride a horse when a car goes much faster.

yeah but riding a horse wont make you drive any better.

[tomatwalden]

yeah but riding a horse wont make you drive any better.

Indeed, but some people just like to ride flybars, sorry, horses! As Jimmy says, FB and FBL are different and some people like flybars! Personally, I don't get why people like horses, but I don't presuppose that just because I don't like them, then everyone should ditch them in favour of cars!

The "which to learn on" question is clearly more subtle however, but again, I just think everyone's different! - live and let live, what will be will be, etc. etc.

T