Wake up call!!

[SaneAdam]

I suppose it literally just comes down to what you want.....

If you want to fly with flybars..... then it still has a place and you will obviously need to learn the skill. Also you will be best starting with a flybar if you wish to continue in that fashion.

If you don't want to use a flybar system and prefer FBL, then flybars have no place and are an old technology that has been replaced by computers much like the rest of the world.

But in my view, if you do want to fly just FBL, then there would be no point forcing yourself to be able to master flybarred machines. I just think with a FB machine you are flying the flybar and not the helicopter. Linear control is sacrificed for stability that the flybar brings, but obviously you then have to deal with a lot more correcting to balance the shifting weight of the flybar and the inertia of the rotor head together. With FBL you are effectively flying the rotor head with a computer creating the stability. Which gives a much more direct linear feel to the controls. FB i feel is like stirring treacle when flying. FBL just feels clean and direct. Just my view though

[tomatwalden]

I suppose it literally just comes down to what you want.....

Couldn't agree more!

....

But in my view, if you do want to fly just FBL, then there would be no point forcing yourself to be able to master flybarred machines. ...

Agree too. If you have no wish to learn a flybar then don't - it may gain you some extra knowledge, but it's far from being any kind of a necessity.

[450man]

I suppose it literally just comes down to what you want.....

I agree with that. It is a hobby and it is down to what you want and the feel you want from your heli... not to mention price you want to pay!

Last night I had posted that I was going to get a FB Blade 450 3D so I could find out the difference for myself. Reading this thread and others this morning I think that would be a bit unnecessary As I have no intention to fly FB in future. In fact, this whole discussion has had me searching the web and I really like the look of the helicommand HC3-SX. It is going completely the other way away from FB and even beyond FBL as it has a self-righting mode and a Rescue mode where the heli will right itself and climb away if you hit the button.

It is expensive but on a biggish heli it could save you the cost of the unit in just a few crashes.

For me though I am more interested in the technology and how it works and how to use it so if I get one I will probably put it on a 450 FBL as a trial platform. Clearly, most people wouldn't put it on a 450 as the HC3-SX would cost as much as the model (£400). But if I like it and think it could work well for me then I will put it on any bigger heli I get.

Still investigating and thinking about it.

[tomatwalden]

Paul,

Funnily enough, there was quite a bit of discussion about "Chicken switches" as I've discovered they're colloqially known at the slightly washed out grassroots event last weekend.

The concensus of opinion was pretty much this ...

If you're in the situation of needing it (ie. the rescue function), you're in trouble and things go wrong *VERY* quickly. The chances, in that split second, of deciding to either try to fly it out of trouble, or hit throttle hold, or hit "rescue" is quite small.

ie. you'd probably hit the rescue button about a second after the heli hits the dirt ...

[450man]

... you'd probably hit the rescue button about a second after the heli hits the dirt ...

Well, that is certainly one possible outcome but I think that if you have a "chicken switch" then you would be well aware of having it and use it well before you need it and probably quite frequently so as to not be too late. Gradually you would get more proficient at whatever it is you are trying to do and use it less often and later and then yes I agree that in those circumstances, when you aren't expecting it to go wrong, you might be too late. But while practicing a manoeuvre for the first few times you would be very aware of the switch and make sure you used it if needed or even when you might not have needed it.

I think it is something that you would get used to having and you would then always be ready to hit the switch.

We'll see. If I get one I'll report back as to how I feel about it as a newbie. As a newbie it might be easier to get used to as I don't have to retain myself.

I do agree though... it won't stop crashes! Nor should it. Without the fear of crashing and the skill needed to prevent crashes the hobby could be quite boring for many. But if it can prevent a few of the crashes then it might make the hobby less frustrating as a newbie in particular.

[cjcj1949]

The msr was a big step at the time as it gave us a decent trainer that didn't break every crash. Then the mcpx, the nano and now the 130X. Things will get even easier with more crash avoidance. Tech only gets cheaper. I don't think it will make flying any easier. We tend to like to find our limits and whatever Tech exists we will manage to push it beyond its and our limits. Like better brakes in a car, it allows you to drive faster. I do use rate mode and found it very useful when learning to hover, mainly because the gyro was so bad in hold mode. I only use it now out of habit to keep the gyro reset before I switch into hold mode just before takeoff.

[debrooker]

yeah but riding a horse wont make you drive any better.

might open driver's eyes to one's vulnerability on being on a horse, like those who ride bikes I digress...

[maddog7]

Dudes the point I was trying to make was that because I learnt on flybarless, when presented with a flybarred machine I suddenly found myself back at square 1 again! Its a bit like learning to drive an auto then jumping into a manual! And not everybody can afford to just stay with flybarless! The only way i managed is was by swapping an aircraft for a 2nd hand heli so I had no choice between flybarred or flybarless.

Gaz,
I really don't think your problem was because you were presented with a FB heli after a FBL one, it was because you were presented with TREX 250!

I can fly my TREX 600 EFL FBL then my friends ten year old Raptor 50 FB and I barely notice the difference in cyclic and tail control, try a 550/600 size FB and I'll bet you can fly it better than your 130X.

[gazmk2]

I have heard a few folks saying that the 250 is hard to fly! good practice then I suppose! I have my 130x at work now just to " feel" the difference back to back. I spotted the biggest difference was how much sharper the 130x feels. I normally run the rates at 60% 80% 100% but after flying the 130 again the trex is flown at 80% where as the 130 is flown at 60%

Half the problem seemed to be it was slower to react so I overcompensated, now I have upped the rates it is a fair bit easier. I still can only manage a nose out hover though, I flew the 130x straight after and instantly started chucking it around! Low ceilings and lots to hit so no inverted or flips but plenty of high speed hooning and pirouettes around pillars! The difference is huge and the more I fly the 250, the better I seem to get with 130x!