Newbie now with a Blade 450 3D

[PsiFox]

PsiFox: I'm pleased you find the thread useful, I've had a lot of help from the forum members so it's good to be able to return the favour!

I like the 450 3D (although I don't have anything to compare it to!), but I found it a big jump up from a co-axial "trainer", I think, as others have said, an intermediate step might be a good idea (mCPX or Nano seem good candidates). You don't say if you've got a heli yet, if not I would suggest cutting your teeth on something smaller/simpler than the 450 3D.

Owen

Thanks for the advice Owen , I just don't do "small". whether it's cars, trucks or gliders in the past I always went big so to speak. Besides I like a challenge.

[owend]

Well, you'll certainly face a challenge - if you take to it like I have, at least we'll keep the hobby shop workers employed ! Seriously, use training gear, it'll save your blades by stopping the heli turning over too easily.

Owen

[owend]

I've had about 3.5 hrs flying now (34 batteries' worth at about 6 mins each), in the garden for hovering practice for the last week or so. No crashes since the broken blade last week, new blades now equally shimmed top and bottom, tomatwalden!

I can hover fairly reliably at about half a metre altitude in our congested garden, tail-in only, even in today's blustery wind . I can't get a nose-in hover (even in calm air), only a few hops , although I can manage the controls nose-in on the mCX2 perfectly OK. The Blade 450 always tries to take off with a rightward tilt, and I end up sliding across the lawn on the training legs with the rotor getting a bit close to the ground. I can correct it with a bit of left cyclic as it takes off tail-in, but nose-in I think I'm a bit scared to put in enough left cyclic, as the 450 immediately starts a leftwards slide towards assorted garden furniture and shrubbery.

Is the rightward tilt on take off normal, and if not should I trim something, perhaps some positive left aileron? Or soften the transmitter settings (they're as they came preset on the DX6i as it was RTF) - if so, to what?? And is it normal to have problems with the nose-in hover? I know the each-at-their-own-speed argument, but I'd really just like a broad idea of how long it took some you experts to get the hovering sorted!

I'm enjoying it though, a challenging hobby, good word, "challenging".

Owen

[tomatwalden]

The right tilt in a hover is perfectly normal and required to counteract the left push of the tail rotor (translating tendency)

The video below shows it pretty well, with the exception that it's all reversed as the helicopter shown as anti-clockwise blades, whereas our heli's have clockwise rotation. But it shows the concept pretty well I think.

[tomatwalden]

PS. Practising hovering is a very good skill to master - especially in all orientations. However, I wouldn't do that exclusively! You need to spread your wings (so to speak) a little in a big open area (preferably with nobody else around - audiences are a liability and they'll put you off!). Keep training skids on if you like, but get some height and practise moving the heli around in front of you. Keep it tail-in at first, then (when you feel ready) progress with turning the heli 45deg as you move from left to right.

Pretty much what I was trying to do in the vid below (albeit, none too well!)

Take it easy and Good luck!

[mattscupoftea]

Newbie now with a Blade 450 3D

i owen, I've jut read your thread with interest... It's always interesting to hear how others are starting out.

Firstly I would say that one of the things I've found that gave me trouble on takeoff was tentativeness. Once you start to get the hang of hovering, you'd be best to get up from the ground to a metre or so up. In my thinking, once you leave the deck, the ground is no longer your friend. Stay too close and you'll be tempted to slam to the ground in moments of panic. Also gusts can cause drops in lift leading to 'accidental' landings. Not good. A bit of height gives you room for reaction.

In a previous post you mentioned Phoenix, then never again. For me Phoenix was the singlemost important part of my learning of the basics. So I recommend it. It gets the muscle memory and twitch reactions up to speed with zero crash costs! Be warned though that it eats up spare time and leads to big-heli lust! Otherwise though, it will save you soo much cash it's ridiculous!

I agree with tomatwalden that getting out of the garden and giving yourself some breathing room will help. Id recommend carrying on with tail in hovers but have a go at drifting left and right - this gives you an almost side on perspective of the heli but feels like tail-in for hovering purposes.

People do learn at different rates - but the people that seem to learn really fast are probably spending hours on the sim. A great tactic to avoid envy of those that seem to be learning at a faster rate than you is to remember that whatever stage you're at, you are experiencing the hobby, which is what it is all about. The journey is the destination and all that...

[owend]

Tomatwalden, your " none too well" is my current ambition! I went large-field last week, as I said, which didn't end well, stripped main gear, hence the garden practice to MAKE me hover, controlled, in a smallish space, but I take your point, I think I can go back outside and keep tail-in. I'll see what the weather's like tomorrow!

And I take your point about a bit of altitude to give a safety net, mattscupoftea. I'm probably OK now with landing safely, but last week I tried too soon. I've got a spare main gear, blades and fly bar now, and a bit more flight time, so fingers crossed.......

It looks like the next target should be some hovering and sideways/forward/backwards drifting at 3-4 metres. And a non-crash landing!

A flight simulator seems to be the near-universal recommendation, me and MasterCard look like having another outing.

Owen

[tomatwalden]

Tomatwalden, your " none too well" is my current ambition! I went large-field last week, as I said, which didn't end well, stripped main gear, hence the garden practice to MAKE me hover, controlled, in a smallish space, but I take your point, I think I can go back outside and keep tail-in. I'll see what the weather's like tomorrow!

And I take your point about a bit of altitude to give a safety net, mattscupoftea. I'm probably OK now with landing safely, but last week I tried too soon. I've got a spare main gear, blades and fly bar now, and a bit more flight time, so fingers crossed.......

It looks like the next target should be some hovering and sideways/forward/backwards drifting at 3-4 metres. And a non-crash landing!

A flight simulator seems to be the near-universal recommendation, me and MasterCard look like having another outing.

Owen

If you're hovering in the garden, and bringing it down safely - you've got landing sorted. Flying a bit higher is then sometimes just a bit of confidence. Matt's right, height is your friend really although it can feel nervewracking initially when you take the heli up away from that "it'll only fall a few inches" range from the ground.

Just keep it tail-in and practice slow and steady drifts to the sides. If you ever feel that it's going a bit fast, bring it back to a hover, ensure it's tail-in still and take a breather. Probably just land it where it is. That first stage really is a steep learning curve - but you'll be amazed how quickly it'll become second nature!

Cheers. Tom.

[owend]

This morning I was finally able to take Tom's and Matt's advice and try in the field with more space, after the bad weather of the last few days, but there was still enough gusty wind to make me stop after a couple of minutes. One slightly scary landing, no damage but five minutes unpicking grass wrapped round tail rotor shaft! Carried on in the garden (shorter grass) at low level for a couple of batteries but the heli was still twitchy (or might have been me).

Later, I adjusted the expo for Aileron and Elevator on the DX6i, to +20% from +7%: this calmed it down! I think I was being too rough/jerky on the stick: am I right thinking that more expo means a less sensitive stick (round the centre position) = more movement of the stick to give the same response on the heli? It seemed more calm, but it was getting dark so I finished for the evening, so not a full test-flight programme yet. I also increased the rudder expo to +7%, which seemed to help again. I got a couple of tail-in hover for about a minute and a half within 2 metres of the spot after adjusting the expo!

If I want to "calm down" the response, what rate/expo would you advise? It was 50% and +7% for both aileron and elevator as set (it was RTF); it's better at 50% and +20%, but I haven't changed the rate yet (+30% expo seemed too sluggish with a short flight).

Otherwise, I haven't hit anything or damaged the heli for days now, which seems to suggest progress !!

Owen

[tomatwalden]

I honestly wouldn't try to calm it down too much from the RTF settings. You're basically right about Expo - it gives an exponential curve across the same range. So less response around mid-stick, but it accelerates towards the extremes to cover the same range. Too much expo will make the heli feel dead around centre stick, resulting in more stick movement required, thereby pushing into that accelerating range. Personally, I think you're better off just practising and getting used to it.

[owend]

OK, I'll leave it as I've changed it for now, but no more, and test it critically next time the wind drops! It may help to get me fully in control of the hover, then I'll take it back to the original factory settings.

Owen

[owend]

Fine dry day finally! Some gusty wind, but some rewarding flights. I've left the expo at 20% for now, it seems easier for me to control; I'll put it back to the original settings when I'm a bit more confident. I am hammering the tail-in hover, I think I've got it fairly well sorted at last, I can even recover when a gust hits! I still haven't got nose-in, the machine tries to escape to the left rear every time, so I've put it on hold. Very irritating, I can fly nose-in with the mCX2 without any problems - I even back up to touch the wall with the tail boom and not crash, which I probably won't be trying with the 450. I'm also getting a sim, so that should help.

Technical question: I've been keeping the 450 in the garage, because of its size with the training legs attached. With the cold weather coming, is it OK to leave it there, or is there a low-temperature limit of, for example, 5 degrees C? It doesn't usually fall to freezing in the garage, but it gets close in frosty weather. I keep the LiPos inside as recommended, but I can't see any temperature recommendations in the manual, and I've seen videos of helis and quads flying in snow!

Owen

[owend]

Been a while, because of, er, little news! I have the tail-in hover fairly reliably; nose-in hover with a bit of wander, usually within a couple of meters of target; sideways hover with entertainingly random input from the heli (obviously not me!!), only tentative rotation in the air. Slow progress, but I'm getting on. The last few weeks largely grounded with the weather, but I've been out trying the last couple of days.

Question 1: the last couple of days have been cold (around freezing) but dry. The heli has been performing strangely, some jerky responses and I need a LOT of left cyclic (I've had to move sub-trim up to 35/40 left, AND the trim halfway to the left). I can't see anything mechanically different. Reading around, there are comments about cold lipos causing erratic responses (not here, I keep them indoors) or cold servos (yes; I keep the heli in the garage, which is near freezing now). Will cold affect servos?

Question 2: I'm struggling somewhat with the 450, although no crashes for ages ! I want a small trainer to practice on indoors, not 3D for the foreseeable future, but a better learning machine than the mCX2. I've read a lot of comments, and I'm inclining towards a Nano (small, resilient but questions about motor life), or possibly MSRx (small, cheap, but FP), and MCPx (slightly larger, cheap). As I can at least get the 450 off the ground safely, can anyone please comment on the suitability of the Nano?

Construction tip: I have had recurring irritation with the "hook" at the bottom of the tailskid catching in the grass (and earth, after particularly heavy landings!) - I have perfected a sort of nodding takeoff, with a lot of forward elevator and a quick correction as soon as the tailskid undigs itself. Finally, after three months, my brain worked and after a minute's work with a Stanley knife the tailskid now has a smooth curve underneath. Problem solved, although I'll have to find a new way to aerate the lawn!

Owen

[tomatwalden]

For an indoor trainer, it really is only the nano CPX. Fixed pitch would be a backward step in my view. The mcpx can be used indoors, but despite being only marginally larger than the nano, for in-the-house flight, those few mm really do make a difference meaning it's not the easiest thing for a beginner in a house.

Not sure about the left drift. Never heard of servos being affected by the cold. Another possibility I would have thought is the rubber dampers in the main head. Have you tried bringing the heli indoors for a day or two ? From your description, it sounds like the swashplate isn't level, or maybe the flybar paddles. You should be able to check for clean servo movement with the heli sat on the bench.

Tail hook - yes, never understood why they put that stupid hook on the fin - it always catches on something. On my 450x, I've replaced the stock fin with a Fusuno fin which has a rounded tip.

[owend]

Followed your suggestions; servos moved smoothly. Fine-tuned the paddles, although I had to almost imagine any out-of-lineness.

But with the subtrim zero'd and the Tx trim neutral, the swashplate was leaning to the right! Not sure why, the servo arm was horizontal with the sticks centred. I've levelled the swashplate and lengthened the linkrod so it fits with the now-level swashplate and the still-horizontal servo arm, but no testflown yet, it's a bit dark now!

I feel a bit silly not to have checked myself, but I'll know for the future. I don't see any damage or any reason why the linkrod suddenly seems to have shortened, so a very careful testflight tomorrow and check all the other linkages in case something else moved to give this change. Only possible villain is the swashplate seemed slightly stiff moving up and down the mainshaft, although the rotor spins freely, Worked it a few times and treated it to a very light dose of 3-in-1.

Thanks again, Tom!

Owen