Does Size Matter ? (Phnarr, Phnarr)

[Bubblefish777]

Hi Guys,

Quick question....
why do people refer to the Belt CP and TREX 450 as 'micro' in size ?
What size is a .50, .60 and .90 ? I assume they refer to engine sizes and therefore models must scale up to accomodate them ???

Why would you buy a 450 if you could buy a 600 T-Rex ?

What about a Logo 16 where it's a large heli ? I thought the larger the heli the more stable and easier to fly ????

Birthdays in 3 days and I want to buy my next heli .... I'm bidding on ebay for a 450 but seen a 600 ....hence the thoughts started flying.

[Weetobix]

The .30, .50 etc does indeed refer to the engine size, but generally the helecopter becomes bigger too.

Bigger heli means they are as a rule more stable and less twitchy - the 450 sizes are much faster to respond, but that can often mean harder to handle. They are also effected by wind a lot more.

Size wize, my Raptor 50 is 140cm long (not including blades) and has 60cm blades, so approx 130-140cm wingspan

That said, people buy the 450 sizes as they are cheaper initially, cheaper to replace the bits that break, and don't take as much space (both in terms of storage and flying space)

[Bubblefish777]

The .30, .50 etc does indeed refer to the engine size, but generally the helecopter becomes bigger too.

Bigger heli means they are as a rule more stable and less twitchy - the 450 sizes are much faster to respond, but that can often mean harder to handle. They are also effected by wind a lot more.

Size wize, my Raptor 50 is 140cm long (not including blades) and has 60cm blades, so approx 130-140cm wingspan

That said, people buy the 450 sizes as they are cheaper initially, cheaper to replace the bits that break, and don't take as much space (both in terms of storage and flying space)

So if you had the choice...... and were fairly new to the sport...discounting cost but considering I'm a beginner and need stability ....would you opt for a 450SE v2 OR a 600 with all the bells and whistles ?

While we're at it....would you buy a second hand kit (as you can see it fly and know it's good to go) ? Or would you buy new because it helps you understand how to strip and rebuild in the event of a crash....again I'm leaning towards second hand as I know someone has trimmed and set it up right already.

[Sesame]

If cost is not an issue then youd be daft not to go for a 600.

can be setup fairly docile for beginers and can pull off some very impressive 3d for the more advanced.

Plus its a heck of alot more stable than the 450. but costs normally do matter and the leccy version of the 600 is not te cheapest heli to run.

plus the other problem is the learning curve is going to be made slightly longer by the fact your gonna be waiting around for batteries alot of the time, again cured by having a dozen or so at £180ish a pop. I think their cheaper than this now.

[Bubblefish777]

If cost is not an issue then youd be daft not to go for a 600.

can be setup fairly docile for beginers and can pull off some very impressive 3d for the more advanced.

Plus its a heck of alot more stable than the 450. but costs normally do matter and the leccy version of the 600 is not te cheapest heli to run.

plus the other problem is the learning curve is going to be made slightly longer by the fact your gonna be waiting around for batteries alot of the time, again cured by having a dozen or so at £180ish a pop. I think their cheaper than this now.

OK..... I had to ask because the impression you get on the boards is *everyone* has a 450. Well then a 600 it is.

Does anyone want to be brave and venture a kit/setup/model or has hints and tips for this ?
I noticed someone on here who has a 600 on their signature mentions they go through motor shafts. All 600L motor (600x or 600L ?)
Again any views on the build it yourself/buy it made ?!

cheers for replies so far.

[kungpo]

I'm not the gospel on this, but if you are considering a 600 size heli, it might be worth looking at IC powered. I think the initial costs are pretty similar, but running costs are lower due to the price of fuel opposed to the cost of batteries on electric.

Also, building is worth doing - I'm putting a 600N together at the moment, and it is great for learning how it works, as well as the satisfaction (I hope!), of seeing something you put together flying.

[Sesame]

for either machine IC or Electric I would strongly advise finding a local club and getting advice/help as these machines can be dangerous if got wrong or flown in the wrong places.

certainly the ic makes learning easier as you can just refuel and be back in the air within minutes

[Bubblefish777]

I'm not the gospel on this, but if you are considering a 600 size heli, it might be worth looking at IC powered. I think the initial costs are pretty similar, but running costs are lower due to the price of fuel opposed to the cost of batteries on electric.

Also, building is worth doing - I'm putting a 60N together at the moment, and it is great for learning how it works, as well as the satisfaction (I hope!), of seeing something you put together flying.

it's a no on the IC power.
Many years ago I had a Kyosho Heli and a couple of cars all IC powered and I grew to hate them. Buggering about with glow plugs, starters, fuel, batteries for starter, batteries for the glow plug, pumps for fuelling, loads of kit to cart about... yadda yadda yadda. You spend more time buggering about starting the thing and then sorting the lean/richness settings and all the associated problems (God help you should you change fuels or you use a summer glow plug when it's winter) No. Not going back to the madness. Electric is great. Grab your charged batteries plug them in and go. No oily smoke, no psychotic screaming engines, No sticky exhausts. Electric you can fly in halls, barns as well as outdoors. They're quiet and clean and power delivery is smooth(ish ....compared to IC).

As for building my own....yes I'm just toying with this idea....weighing pro's and cons such as immediate fly'ability, depreciaton, or buy a second hand one and spend money on tarting it up, things like do i really want to spank a brand new heli into the deck or shall i do that with a second hand one ... etc. etc.

[Bubblefish777]

for either machine IC or Electric I would strongly advise finding a local club and getting advice/help as these machines can be dangerous if got wrong or flown in the wrong places.

certainly the ic makes learning easier as you can just refuel and be back in the air within minutes

Mmmmm.....
I thought about a club but when I visited my local club it's full of old farts wearing flight suits (I had to bite my tongue here) and obviously living in some fantasy land. Apparently there were rules like the Senior flight Officer had to sign you off before flying solo ... (senior flight officer....omg....seriously...titles like that...you just know he salutes himdelf in the morning and probably refers to the model aircraft as his 'squadron'..... As an ex-services bloke I don't need to be living in some pseudo military fantasyland) Anyway they totally put me off, plus there seemed to be reams and reams of paper to fill in and fee's to pay... I hold a PPL and I go through less grief flying a real aircraft than with this lot. I taught myself last time and will probably do it again. I don't mind meeting folks to fly and chat but I'm not into being regimented and told when and how I can fly. I have hundreds of acre's I can fly in so I'm not going to hit anyone or anything.

As a footnote.... When I was at the club everyone was complaining no 'new blood' or youngsters were joining and they waffled on about xbox's being the cause etc. If anyone out there owns a flightsuit or is the club Snr Flying Officer..... the answers are all in the mirror.

.... I re-read this and it was quiet a rant... please don't take it the wrong way.... but the club was very 'stuffy' and I'm 39 and was put off .... so I can only imagine what a 'youngster' thinks. BTW anyone who's wondering.....the flying club was on the outskirts of Stevenage and I live in Bishops Stortford.

[AGW]

Ok I'll stick my 10p in

I was in the same position as you a year or so ago!

I had raced 1/10th scale touring cars at national level for many years but got board and decided I needed a new challenge. I had exactly the same opinion of anything I.C. I had, had enough of playing with mixtures and tuning every single time I started the engine, never mind the mess to clean up afterwards

So I brought a 600e, one of the first batches as it happens. It's a fantastic machine, well priced and resonable quality. This is the spec I brought then and still fly now.

T-Rex 600e CF + Standard 600L Motor.
3 x S3152's
401 + 9254
R149DP Rx
3 x Align 4200Mah LiPo's
Robbe Fun Charger
FP V Balancer
FF9 Tx

Things have moved on a lot since I brought my stuff, especially in the LiPo and charger department. But I am very happy with all of it.

I think it's generally accepted that the aurorra http://www.aurorra.co.uk/shop/home.php system is one of the best charging/LiPo solutions out there for the Rex. Lot's of money though


I have been flying just over a year now, and have come round to the idea of an I.C. Because unless you have 4 or 5 batteries you're never gonna get the stick time in like you can with an I.C. + engines like the YS 50 are more or less fit and forget.

Hope this helps

Andy

[AGW]

Quite a few clubs in Heartfordshire not sure if any are near you?

http://www.bmfa.org/clubs/clist.php

[Bubblefish777]

I think it's generally accepted that the aurorra http://www.aurorra.co.uk/shop/home.php system is one of the best charging/LiPo solutions out there for the Rex. Lot's of money though


I have been flying just over a year now, and have come round to the idea of an I.C. Because unless you have 4 or 5 batteries you're never gonna get the stick time in like you can with an I.C. + engines like the YS 50 are more or less fit and forget.

Hope this helps

Andy

Thanks for the response.....exactly what I was hoping for.
Your comments on the YS50....'fit and forget' Have things changed to the point where there's no more buggering about ? No more compression problems (head too tight or too loose) etc. ? I honestly don't have an issue with the battery costs and to be honest the only way I could imagineme going IC was if they have invented electric start (like that have for the IC buggies now) AND there was a real power to weight advantage or consistency in power delivery you don't get with batteries... I'll admit I do notice the difference in inital performance delivery compared to that 5 mins in to a session.

[AGW]

Your gonna get longer flight times with the I.C

Once you're flying about with the 600e you're only gonna get about 5 minutes or so thats one thing that has made my buy an I.C, I'm just starting to enjoy batting about and it's time to land.

I have only just brought my I.C and haven't flown it yet, infact I don't even have all the bits for it yet. But we have quite a few experianced guys at our club who really like the YS engines. OS have always been very popular, but some people seem to have various problems with them, tuning, failures etc. But form what I've hear'd and experianced in our club the YS engines seems to be very reliable, and once you have ran them in and got the miture right you can forget about needing to play with the mixtures.

Not sure about electric start on an I.C, I've seen them on big 2 stroke machines.

Speak to Mike at Aurrora, he's a top bloke and knows his stuff. Or drop Ashley Davis a PM if you want an un-bias review of the battery technologies out there to power the rex.

Cheers

Andy

[norris_mcsquirter]

gotta 2nd andy on the engine front.. im in the same club as him and my os cspec with cline regulator is also a set and forget.. ive got through 20 gallons of fuel so far this year and thanks to ic engines its given me tremendous amounts of stick time and i fly every day so am improving leaps and bounds.. not knocking the electric helis as i have a trex 45o se too and its mint but its all about practice in the first few months to get ya thumbs dialled in and for me it was easier with ic as i just keep fueling up and flying and not waiting for my batteries to charge.. just my opinion.. chris

[jamiem]

I noticed someone on here who has a 600 on their signature mentions they go through motor shafts. All 600L motor (600x or 600L ?)

dont know who you could be talking about!? anyway, ive replied to your PM, feel free to ask any more questions you may have!

Jamie