HELI NEWBIE - Starting and idle issues

[Carver]

Hi all,

I'm completely new to rc helis but have been a huge fan for years.
I bought a 2nd hand (good condition) HIROBO "Shuttle" recently and tried starting it for the first time yesterday.
I put about 1/8th tank of fuel in (just incase anything went wrong), made sure fuel made it's way all the way to the carb, set the throttle servo to starting position (throttle stick full back but trim full forwards), already checked for good glow so I know that's fine and constant, put my starter inside the belt and took up slack.....IGNITION!!! Nothing!?!
Engine turned over but was very stiff. This was until fuel started getting through it because then it loosened up a bit.
I tried again and managed to get a couple of 'pops' out of it and a blob of black tar from the exhaust. Still didn't want to know.

I do know a little bit about model engines (rc planes before this) and i knew i shouldn't have done what i did next. I took of the feeder tube leading from the exhaust to the fuel tank and gave a quick blow so fuel would flood into the carb. I hurridly put the tube back on, got into starting position and tried again. IT FIRED UP!!! But oh no, the engine is running away and it was getting ever increasingly harder to hold onto the rotors so I dived backwards letting go of them.

This is when I hid behind the bins. The engine was running away even though Tx and Rx were on and the throttle servo was set to idle. The rotors didn't quite get enough power to lift the heli off the ground although it did pirouette a couple of times before the engine stalled (this was after a sudden burst of even more power). The glow plug was tight but there was no metal washer, there is now!

Now, on reflection and after counting fingers and toes, I thought it seemed like air was getting into the engine from somewhere other than the carb.
Please could you experienced guys and gals recommend a plan of action, a checklist if you will, just so I can keep all of my fingers?

P.S.: I survived this because I took this model very seriously. I might look at this light hartedly now but it was a very serious situation at the time. THESE MODELS ARE NOT TOYS.

P.P.S.: Sorry for the really long post but it's my first...

[Disc]

Okay,
you tryed to do it the safe way....... Well half way to being safe
anyway. As you discovered not knowing exactly whats going on
means run for it...

First things 1st Where are you? If you can fill in your profile abit
we can see what the heli is your location etc helps us help you.

1.Get BMFA insurance (Unless you have it already)

2. Find a Local Club thats Heli freindly. Because there help is going
to mean you don't end doing harm to yourself or something esle!

you can find a club list here:

http://www.bmfa.org/clubs/clist.php

[ChrisB]

REMOVE THE MAIN AND TAIL BLADES FIRST..

Check the engine over thoroughly,are all lines and filters clear?,if so try starting it again and see if the engine will idle and rev up properly..

If not remove it and start faultfinding,

More importantly get some help from someone familiar with helis,the machine will need a good lookover by an experienced flier and also sort some BMFA insurance out..

It is very dangerous for an inexperienced person to play about with a heli with all the blades on as you have already seen....good luck


Also i noticed you had the throttle trim full forwards,depending on how the throttle is set up that could give a fair bit of throttle,start with the trim right down also and click it up slowly until engine will start..

Also when you start the engine even without blades but especially with them,NEVER let go of the head under any circumstances,there is a centrifugal clutch in the driveline that will slip,it may burn the clutch out and stink like hell but never ever let the blades go,an out of control heli is something you dont want to be near neither will anybody else

[Ade_Law]

First rule of having an engine running away is not to let go. You can easily over power the clutch this is much safer than an out of control model thrashing around the pits

the second rule is to disconnect the fuel. its the sure fire way of quickly stopping an engine.

However. the thing that would have stopped all of this happening would have to have taken it to the an experienced flier. If you cant find anybody local. Or want to be sure of getting the model setup properly drive an hour and come and see me.

www.flyingaid.co.uk

on a side note, I am not a fan of taking blades off, sure if it gets going its going to do more damage but you have more leverage there, blades arent going to fold much more than 90degs back before hitting the grips so your much less likely to have something spinning uncontrollably. Even a flybar can do good amount of damage.

Ade

[Fixer]

This story brings back memories, make sure you have the throttle servo working the right way, if your unsure take the crab off and have a look were the position of the arm is when the barrel is closed, when you’ve done that make sure the throttle cut switch works on your Transmitter.

If I only lived an hour from Ade I would go and see him for a set up and possibly a few lessons as well.
I wish he’d move nearer Yorkshire

[Ade_Law]

fixer im planning on being up at the north notts flyin in september

Ade

[Fixer]

That’s a date Ade just let me know the dates, I will bring both Helis for you to work your magic on.

[Ade_Law]

http://www.rchelicopter.co.uk/events.htm

9th-10th september

Ade

[ChrisB]

I meant to remove the blades if you are unsure about what you are doing as opposed to leaving them on and having an out of control circular saw that may even take off,also tail blades as it could spin round and bite you....

[Steve]

I once started my 50 Sceadu with the throttle going the wrong way!

When it fired up and went straight to full throttle, I pulled it in close to my body and held onto the body and rotor head for dear life until my mate ran over and pulled the fuel tube off. By the time he'd done this, the clutch bell had exploded, spraying very sharp and hot pieces of aluminium all over me and straight through soft bits of plastic like the canopy. The engine had then gone to about 40000+ rpm under zero load just before it was stopped, and the air stank of burnt clutch lining!

The clutch and bell cost £60 to replace, and I bent the flybar when I pulled it into my body. The head must have turned once before I got a full grip on it because the starter cable was wrapped once around the head.

Didn't even knacker the plug! The OS engine survived and is still going well today, as is the heli.

Holding a full throttle 50 is a damn site harder than a 32, but it's definately a scary situation which requires holding onto rather than letting go of. If you let go of the thing, how can you be sure where it's going to go, what it's going to hit, or even worse, who it's going to hit?

[Fixer]

http://www.rchelicopter.co.uk/events.htm

9th-10th september

Ade

PM Sent

[Ade_Law]

PM received

:-)

Ade

[Fixer]

The manager

That sounds scary, I did a similar thing but I already had a tight hold of the blade grips and managed to nip the fuel line more or less straight away but it still burnt the clutch liner out.
Any tips on finding out if the carb is closed or open before you attempt to start your weapon or are they all clockwise for off and anti clockwise for on? its impossible to see down the venture on my heli so I found one way is to attach a length of clean fuel line on the carb and blow, when you operate the throttle stick the air will rush in when the throttle is open.

[Ade_Law]

if you spin the motor without the glow clip on the engine note is very different from full throttle to idle.

and when looking from the exhaust side of the engine clockwise is always closed.

Ade

[Fixxxer]

Yep, much duller note when closed.