Which tail servo and gyro for newbie

[brashhighlander]

Hi Everyone

I have just built my first heli a Raptor 30 and I know need to fit it out with radio gear. I have bought a new FF7. I am going to use Futaba S3001 for everything apart from the tail, what I want to know is would a Futaba S3152 be ok for the tail or being a beginner would another S3001 be sufficient. I can't afford or justify a 9254.

Also i was thinking about using either the GY-240 or GY-401 gyro. Do i really need the 401 or will the 240 be ok. Also does these need digital servos.

Thanks in advance.

[phil485]

I can tell you for definite in a couple of days when I get my GY401, but apparantly you can set it for non digital servo's.
I would say that I have messed around for ages trying to get my beast to fly right. Get the best stuff possible, it isn't long before you start to notice. My current gyro isn't heading hold and everytime you rebuild the heli you have to spend ages setting up the tail again.

[chappers]

servos

hi, basicaly theres a lot of crap talked! as a beginner you WILL NOT feel any difference to a high quality/expensive servo/gyro!
So, what do you buy? the answer is simple, The best you can afford without selling the kids! simple as that, no ifs no buts thats it! of course there are limits, eg. dont put a 3 servo from a well known E-auction house on!!! But be sensible pay what you can, and dont be dragged into the crowd who say nothing but the best will do! Its bollocks!!
merry xmas
keith

[chappers]

tail

phill, if your having to set up your gyro up after each rebuild, and are using a heading hold gyro to solve this, may i suggest all you are doing is masking the problem! you are in effect using a gyro to hide a bad set up and your not solving the problem you appear to have with your set up/model. i would suggest you look further to fixing the problem before you fit HH gyro.
merry xmas
keith

[phil485]

Don't have to change the gyro, but it's a pain in the proverbial resetting the linkages. With the torque compensation thingy ( can't remember the proper term) you end up fiddling with the trims so that the heli will stay pointing in the same direction in the hover. Much easier to have HH and not bother. I can do it and it's not an issue for me now, just one more thing to do and that can cause problems.

I'm flying a seven year old nexus and my gyro was second hand and is about 12 years old. I too don't believe in buying the latest bells and whistles and thinking it will be all right. I just think I would have done better by getting a 401 a little while back! I'm also a slow learner and doing it by myself, but I try to enjoy it all I can

[Ade_Law]

sorry guys, i have to dissaggree.

a 401 with a 9254 is the only way to go. it makes life a lot easier as it lets you forget about the tail rotor whilst you get used to using the other controls it reduces work load considerably.

having a tail that isnt stable upsets the dynamics of the rest of the model too.

the combo can be had for around 160ukp and is worth every penny. You many not be able to justify it now but you will not regret it once you see the difference compared to others.

Ade

[raptorcopy]

hi guys just a bit of advice from a beginer

i have a raptor 30 and put in a gy401 and 9254 and it flys like a dream i picked the pair up on ebay for 100 and am just building a 50 size and i am going to buy the same my father has a voyager 50 and a cheaper gyro and that is terrible the tail goes left then right so for me its the gy401 eveytime it really is great and you dont have to worry about the tail to much whilst trying to work out all the other controls i had 5 one hour lessons and was hoovering taking off and landing solo yes the person teaching me to fly was fantastic but the 401 also made a big difference hope this helps

richy

[Disc]

Hi
beginner... Okay my Raptor 30 with a CSM 560sl has the 3001 on
tail. yup the 3001 is fine for heading hold gyro and a beginner...
I havnt even done the tail mount servo option yet!

I am flying figure 8's into stall turns and the 3001 copes fine.

while the choice is to have a fast tail servo there NOT required
for the beginner stuff really.

just my 2p's worth.

[mo]

Hello Chaps.
I am afraid I will have to disagree with Ade's notion that the only way to go is via those expensive radio items (sorry Ade), in the likely event of that first crash, expensive gear will make repairs a far more costly excercise which can be very daunting.
I taught myself to fly in a very short space of time using bog standard gear with a non H/H gyro, and very quickly learned that a nice breeze will hold the heading nicely if the heli is setup O/K.
I will confess the reason for my success is mostly due to the purchase of a G2 Sim, so in that respect I will urge the learner flyer to make the purchase, as Keith has said, of a good simulater to be the first step along the learning curve.
I can recommend a CSM 200 Gyro and 3001 servo's, and I will guarantee that if the heli is also setup in a fair manner, there is no reason that a first time flyer will notice the difference until he can fly sufficiently well to discover what flying is really all about.
GOOD FLYING.
Mo.

[chappers]

hi sorry ADE, but your wrong! im not suggesting you have an unstable tail what i am saying is take the time to set up the tail correctly and there is no need to spend a fortune on expensive servos and gyros, in the initial stages!!! too many people these days hide a badly set up tail with a HH gyro. EVEN A HH GYRO REQUIRES THE TAIL TO BE SET UP CORRECTLY TO ACHIEVE A DECENT PERFORMENCE. AS FOR ENCOURAGING BEGINNERS TO USE HH IS THAT REALLY THE RIGHT WAY TO GO? ok in your position as a paid instructer its easy money! as its 1 less function to teach! but surely thats just a cop out?
merry xmas
keith

[G-DAVE]

FALSE ECONOMIES

Get the best gyro/servo combination you can afford !!
If that means a CSM 200 with a Futaba 3001 then so be it -- But don't expect it to be the dogs bo##ocks .
I think it would be a false economy to do so - for an approx. additional 69 you can have a Futaba 401 /9254 good enough for the best.
Dave

[mo]

Hi Dave.
I am not advocating that my suggestion for the cheap electrics are the only way to go, far from it.
If money is no object and the learner can afford digitals and all the rest of associated bling, this will also mean that it would be unlikely he would be asking questions on this forum, and with money to burn would be already under the wing of someone like Ade or yourself.
When I began asking for help on this forum I had a limited budget and proffessional help cost money, I received great help from yourself, Chappers, Peter Milner, to name just a few.
happily I have now reached the stage where I hope I can now also give some answers, having learnt to fly a helicopter using standard gear, I can recommend that this will be no setback for a learner, and in some respects will give a better end result.
This will also ensure that he knows what the lateral movement of the left stick is for from the outset.(mode 2)
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL.
GOOD FLYING.
Mo.

[Ade_Law]

ok, let me explain myself a bit more. So a 401 with 9254 is 160ish ukp. It will probably outlive the model and you will only outgrow it when you get into fastbackwards and travelling piro moves. So thats at least 18months (I am sure there are some that its less than that but they are going to be a minority).

As for crashing and breaking, I have never broken a front mounted servo in a raptor. Broken the odd servo horn and maybe 1 gearset but thats it. I have a talent for destroying stuff too. My original 401 is still going strong in a fellow club members Raptor and the 9253 is sitting in a draw waiting to go on the throttle of my next 90. Standard rod works great as long as the guides are glued in the right place. I normally add an extra one to support it better.

now lets compare long term costs.

a CSM 180 (not a fan of the 200 had lots of problems, if your gonna buy cheap buy proper cheap) and 3001 is going to set you back about 60ukp Which is dead money. Second hand value of those things is next to nothing. You will want a 401/9254 at some point in the future so your going to spend it anyway.

So the "cheap" way 60ukp more expensive.

Lets look at a halfway house, 401 with a 3001. then buying a 9254 later.

401 on its own is 100ukp, 3001, 10ukp total 110ukp (saving of 50ukp short term)

Now later on you go and buy a 9254, its 70ukp. total outlay is 20ukp more expensive. than just buying the combo package.

Now lets look at the hassle factor. A 401/9254 90% of the setup is done on the ground and takes about 10mins inflight setup takes about 30secs just to check the gain is ok and it will keep working until you crash it then just requires 5mins setup on the ground again just to get the rod length back to where it was.

On the cheap setup, 90% of the setup is done by test flying getting it trimmed in the hover, setting up rev mix, gain adjustment on the model all takes time if your paying somebody like me to do theres an extra cost. Engine tune, headspeed, wind all affect those settings which will probably need tweeking on a weekly basis.

the 401/3001 is better than the cheap setup but not by a lot the initial setup will need more tweeking to get it setup right.

Thats the storey from my experience with many models and customers.

Chappers, thats a pretty cheap shot mate. i am not sure if you actually mean it or you are just trolling, either way, grow up.

Ade

[phil485]

Pretty much what I was trying to Say Ade, just you do it so much better.

I've only been on here a short while, but Ade seems to know his stuff. Also as a profesional, who makes his money teaching and setting up helis, every time he posts on here he is potentially losing money. Someone like that, in my book, must have a true love for the sport and should be listened to. If only I was a bit closer, then I would be booking some airtime with Ade

[Janek]

Chappers, you get out the wrong side of bed :?: , the personal dig at Ade was uncalled for, and deserves an apology. I've never seen Ade give any advise that could remotely be classed as covertly "drumming up Business". If Ade is "advertising" his services, he's always up front and honest about it.

As for gyro's and tail servos, buy whatever you can afford, however you must understand that buying cheap initially will result in dead money once you progress to needing GOOD tail holding.

I have 2 Raptors, one is armed with a CSM560 (big) and a JR DS8700G, the other has a Futaba 502 with a 9254. Both are good gyros/servo combinations for my skill level.

I started off with a CSM 180, I broke the adjustment pot during my very first flying session, replaced with a JR gyro, can remember what model, but it was crap, gave it away after a couple of weeks. What I'm trying to say, is you get what you pay for, the low end gyros, if you treat them carefully, will do the job (after a fashion), but you WILL end up replacing the cheap stuff with the more expensive stuff eventually. And that is NOT just upgrading for the "Bling" factor, its the performance you'll need.