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[consultant125]

if the heli is spinning left your actually getting to much tail authority! try turning the limit pot anticlockwise.
then set the delay pot at about 60 and try that!

Hi!

Not sure I understand you there. Looking down on the heli, the main rotor spins clockwise, which must mean that the heli body wants to spin anti-clockwise no? So if the heli is spinning anti-clockwise, there surely must be too little tail authority as you call it?

When you push the throttle up fast, it jumps into the air as you would expect, pulls to the left and then it seems to fly in a jagged circle. It's very hard to describe what it actually does but if you read this sentence at a relatively fast speed (is this geeky or what? ) then that's what it does at an altitude of about six inches. Each 'left' is about a 30 degree change in heading and the first one on takeoff is a 180 degree spin:

Lift and spin left. Left. Left. Left. Left.

From what I read on the forum, that would suggest to me that the gyro is trying to overcompensate (you get a fast wiggle?). I don't mind the gyro overcooking it yet, as long as the gyro does what it should which Heading Hold. I can always dial it in more accurately in the future.

Is there anything physical on the heli that you think might cause this kind of behaviour?

Thanks for the assist.

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[unwind-protect]

It could be too high gyro gain, I guess. Tail motor driven tails are slower to respond than variable pitch tails, which could lead to a slow wag. You should be able to hear the tail rotor speed up and slow down if you listen carefully. 100% gain is very rarely a good starting point. 50% is usually where I start. Poor blade balancing, tracking, or other cause of vibration (such as bent shafts) will also make it harder for the gyro to do its job.

Otherwise, the continuous turning left (ccw) does sound like a lack of TR authority, which is why I suggested checking that the tail rotor is running correctly. If the gyro really is heading hold, then it should be able to do its job approximately without us fiddling with the trims. I don't suppose it's possible that the rudder channel needs reversing? If you move the trim left, it spins ccw faster, yes?

If it were /my/ heli, I'd probably disconnect the main motor and see how it responds when I hold it in my hand. Does there feel like there's enough thrust there? Does it still wag? Does it fight my attempts to turn it? Much vibration?

Of course, we're just guessing (at least I am), as nobody here seems to have your setup. Sorry.

[Boggy]

right i dont mind admiting im baffled as unwind says were guessing as niether of us has seen this heli or set up.
ive downloaded a pdf manual and looking at the pictures the main blades look as if they turn anticlockwise from above which is why i thought you had to much tail power!
so really your back at square one! there is also no mention of the gyro being h/h

[consultant125]

You should be able to hear the tail rotor speed up and slow down if you listen carefully. 100% gain is very rarely a good starting point. 50% is usually where I start. Poor blade balancing, tracking, or other cause of vibration (such as bent shafts) will also make it harder for the gyro to do its job.

Yes I can hear the tail rotor when it kicks in. If I hold it in my hand with the main rotor and waggle it then the tail rotor kicks in and stops, presumably as it should.

I don't suppose it's possible that the rudder channel needs reversing? If you move the trim left, it spins ccw faster, yes?

Correct. Full right trim is useless. Any left trim is less useful than that.

If it were /my/ heli, I'd probably disconnect the main motor and see how it responds when I hold it in my hand. Does there feel like there's enough thrust there? Does it still wag? Does it fight my attempts to turn it? Much vibration?

There was a bit of vibration when it spools up. I put a new set of blades on it and now it's real smooth and the blades are tracking when you look side on.

I haven't tried disconnecting just the main rotor and seeing what it does. Maybe I should. Won't damage it will it?

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[consultant125]

right i dont mind admiting im baffled as unwind says were guessing as niether of us has seen this heli or set up.

Well, I am glad it's not just me. It's true I have little experience, but I'd like to think logic and common sense are on my side.

ive downloaded a pdf manual and looking at the pictures the main blades look as if they turn anticlockwise from above which is why i thought you had to much tail power!

Looking at the top, the blades spin clockwise. The exploded diagram in the manual seems to show the blades the wrong way round. The blades come fitted with the thick edge as the leading edge and the trailing edge the sharp, thin edge.

there is also no mention of the gyro being h/h

Not sure which manual you have, so I attached scans of the relevant bits of mine.

I spoke to Brian, at the shop. He says he's going to speak to some of his regular flyers and it sounds like the heli needs going over by someone with experience to check it. He's got my number and says he'll call me over the next few days. I guess with the nice weather, everyone will be out flying today and his shop is quiet. The crowd will hit the shop tomorrow to replace todays breakages.

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[machasm]

I'll try my 2 pence shall I.
This heli looks alot like my Esky Honey bee except that it has a collective pitch (CCPM).
I believe you are right Consultant125 about tail authority.
i.e. If the heli is spinning left (assuming the main blades are spinning in a clockwise direction looking down at the model) then you need MORE tail power to compensate.
This is the order I would check things.
1) Is tail rotor mounted the correct way round?
When viewed from the right side into the tail rotor they normally spin in an anti-clockwise direction. Therefore ensure that when it does rotate in this direction that it is blowing air at you (looking from the right) and not away from you. If it is turning the wrong way then perhaps the DIP switch on the transmitter will reverse its direction? Or just pull it off and turn it round!
2) If the tail rotor is fitted correctly you should also find that an increase in throttle speed produces an increase in tail speed.
3) If all is well so far and the heli still spins left then you need to increase the proportional pot on the 4in1. Assuming you have one of these. This increases the speed of the tail rotor in relation to the main rotor.
Bear in mind that any changes on the 4in1 and you MUST switch the receiver off and then on again for it to register. Any changes without doing this will have no effect.
4) At some point of fiddling with this pot you should get to a point where you will be able to hover.
5) Then and only then should you start adjusting the gain to stop tail wag.

I hope this helps.
Adrian.

[unwind-protect]

I haven't tried disconnecting just the main rotor and seeing what it does. Maybe I should. Won't damage it will it?

Shouldn't do. Never has for me on similar helis. The main reason was to prevent the main blades doing damage to you! As you rotate the heli ccw in hh mode, the tail should try harder and harder to return the heli to the original position. As you rotate it back it should reduce thrust. The only real reason to try this is to guess if the tail has enough thrust to do its job (e.g. motor ok). If you can hear the tail pulsing, then my guess is gain too high; if there just wasn't enough thrust, it would just try harder and harder.

Well spotted the blades being the wrong way around in the diagram. At least they got the paddles right...

[Boggy]

im butting out of this one! the manual ive dl'd shows the same diagram with the blades revesed one picture shows them "correct" another shows them reversed! threr is no mention of the h/h as per yours!!
i dont know enough about this one to keep commenting it will just confuse matters,so i'll keep shtum! bth if its new take the bugger back, and get your lhs to sort it!!

[consultant125]

This heli looks alot like my Esky Honey bee except that it has a collective pitch (CCPM).

It's apparently a copy of a Walkera (or something like that).

I believe you are right Consultant125 about tail authority.
i.e. If the heli is spinning left (assuming the main blades are spinning in a clockwise direction looking down at the model) then you need MORE tail power to compensate.

I feel right. I am always overly logical. I don't feel I can be wrong about this bit. Stranger things have happened though.

Bear in mind that any changes on the 4in1 and you MUST switch the receiver off and then on again for it to register. Any changes without doing this will have no effect.

Whoa! Stop right there! I ain't seen nothing in the manual about no reboots! That's worth trying straight away. I'll update you shortly on this.

At some point of fiddling with this pot you should get to a point where you will be able to hover.

Pray with me. That's all I want to do. If I can get a steady hover in a sizeable room I will be a happy guy!

There's some good stuff in your post. Thanks. I will let you know how it goes.

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[consultant125]

im butting out of this one!

You're supposed to butt IN, not out!

the manual ive dl'd shows the same diagram with the blades revesed one picture shows them "correct" another shows them reversed! threr is no mention of the h/h as per yours!!

I think we already discovered the manual was fairly rubbish. The DIP switch settings are all wrong. Now it looks as if the diagrams are wrong. I've seen things like this before when building PCs. What happens is, you get a clever Japanese designer who designs a product that is made by a Korean company that has a manufacturing base in China. They sell to a distribution company based in Hong Kong who run a 'front end business' in the States and sell to UK distributors who in turn sell to UK hobby shops. When you have a problem, you speak to the support people who are in India and they escalate to Taiwan. Along the way, the manual gets rewritten at each stage and before long becomes useless.

bth if its new take the bugger back, and get your lhs to sort it!!

LHS? Local Hobby Store? I'm guessing there. My store is great. The guy who owns it said today on the phone that he would give me my money back if it turned out I had bought the wrong heli. I don't want to rob the guy but he also told me I could, "do a borrow" on a 100 quid camera he has knocking about somewhere because he knows I am interested in the video aspect. I told him I have to learn to fly first, before I start wrecking his gear. He's a good guy though!

http://www.hobbyandmodel.co.uk


Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[consultant125]

Bear in mind that any changes on the 4in1 and you MUST switch the receiver off and then on again for it to register. Any changes without doing this will have no effect.

Genius! I think you're onto it. Reboot the heli after making the change - and the TX just for good measure. The H/H seems to work now with the gyro gain turned right up. Now I guess I am qualified to say, "hey, it's a skittish little bugger isn't it?"

Thanks for that Adrian. Now I have to get some proper practice in and I guess it will need a bit of fine tuning. I bet the throttle and pitch curves are all over the place as well because I reset them without rebooting!

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[machasm]

Glad to hear that you have solved your tail problem.
You shouldn't need to turn your receiver off when making changes to the throttle and pitch curves though only when making changes to the pot on the 4in1 itself.
Adrian.

[jboweruk]

Nice one Consultant125, glad to hear you're getting somewhere. Sorry I couldn't be more help, cx's only myself yet, not long now though (I hope).

I have uploaded a couple of vids that I took, alas I think my little Blade CX2's camera ship days are done, she don't have enough lift anymore

On the upside I am working on that. And thanks for the offer of vid editing, my vids aren't that great, (camera is poor quality built for helis (FlyCamOne V2) and held on with Velcro).

Still, I didn't want to spend hundreds on a camera otherwise I guess I could've bought a dedicated camera heli.... I only want it for fun and to share on tinternet, got to find some better music though, as 'Airwolf' is a tad cliched nowadays.

Anyway, good luck with it and have fun mate.

[consultant125]

Glad to hear that you have solved your tail problem.

So am I!

You shouldn't need to turn your receiver off when making changes to the throttle and pitch curves though only when making changes to the pot on the 4in1 itself.

The 4in1 doesn't have a pot. It's all done through the TX. I flew it last night in a floodlit back garden and it worked a lot better, but it wasn't properly trimmed and so decided to fly right into my head. I dropped it hard on the ground and snapped a skid. But I fixed it with a minimal dose of super glue. Can't see that changing the CG. Still I have not properly test flown it since and this lunch time it seemed to be doing the same thing - spinning to the left. I wonder if I have to set the gyro gain each and every time I fly it? Bit of a pain if I do.

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[consultant125]

Nice one Consultant125, glad to hear you're getting somewhere. Sorry I couldn't be more help, cx's only myself yet, not long now though (I hope).

That's okay. All help is much appreciated, however great or small. I am still thinking of getting a CX myself because although the Venom Micro is billed as indoor and outdoor, I think it's a little skittish indoors, not to mention scaring the living daylights out of the dog. She won't come in the room if she knows the heli is on the floor.

Still, I didn't want to spend hundreds on a camera otherwise I guess I could've bought a dedicated camera heli....

Dedicated camera heli? Oh? Tell me more. I haven't seen any companies that sell this kind of product unless you're talking about spending 5,000GBP+. Got any cool links to websites?

I already got the camera - Sony PD170. Cost me 1,300GBP on eBay a year ago. I'll be upgrading to an HD model at the end of the year probably. I just need to get the heli flying and get the skills up to a decent level. I'm not really interested in all this 3D stunt flying. The videos on YouTube are fairly impressive when they do that but I guess we all have our own little interests within the hobby.

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk