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[consultant125]

Right.... possible final report on the Venom Night Ranger 3D Micro. I say 'possible' because if things don't improve rapidly then it's going in the bin and I'll wrap the whole thing up as a bad investment. Or maybe I'll sell it for spares on eBay.

The thing still won't fly straight. I have been fiddling with the trim controls on the remote and the gyro gain (also on the remote) but it still spins to the left with full gyro gain and trim. I think this must mean there is something more fundamental wrong?

The procedure to set the gyro gain is:

1. Switch DIP #12 ON (this is on the TX).
2. Rotate the V2 pot on the TX clockwise for more Heading Hold gyro gain or anti clockwise for Rate Mode.
3. Switch DIP #12 OFF.

Pretty simple it would seem, but for the fact that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the way the heli flies.

I have spent what I consider a fair amount of time playing around with all the various manual and TX settings. I've done probably 8 batteries with it and if I change anything now, I am just going over old ground. Am I expecting too much to think I should be able to hover it relatively hands free in my living room? Or at least set it up to do something resembling this? It seems to me that you have to fly it to be able to set it up correctly but you can't fly it unless it IS set up correctly.

I think Venom are going a little overboard when they say it is ready to fly right out of the box?

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[cambs flyer]

Quote: "I think Venom are going a little overboard when they say it is ready to fly right out of the box?"

And there's the trap I always talk about when people think the Contras are a too easy option to start with.

Just because there "ready to fly straight out the box", never means you are as well!

The manufactures expect the kind of person who'll buy a machine like this already knows what there doing, with CCP heli's

There's tricks and methods to make these heli's fly you pick up with experience, the chance had you been flying for about six months on contras gaining flight experience, Plus practiced on Phoenix for a few months, and collected some wisdom here from more advanced flyer's your first choice of "serious" machine might have been different.

You've chosen a very twitchy machine to learn to fly on, with no experience how to make her fly better, and now your in this situation.

So what could have been a fulfilling hobby is turning into a disaster because you jumped in a little deeper then you should.

Just my pennies worth, but IMHO your choice would have been the last heli I'd have started to learning with!

[consultant125]

And there's the trap I always talk about when people think the Contras are a too easy option to start with.

Just because there "ready to fly straight out the box", never means you are as well!

I'm not going to disagree with you here because I never expected myself to be able to fly it right from the word go. I know I don't have the skills because I have never done it before. But if the heli is spinning to the left despite maximum right trim and full gyro gain in Heading Hold mode (as per the manual) then that surely points to a heli problem and not a driver problem? Indeed, it would be fair to say that I haven't actually driven it yet because all I have done is throttle up, watch it do something weird, tweak it and repeat. I have done this over 8 battery charges. If I had it in the air and was constantly crashing it then yeah, I would be an idiot. Fact is, it hasn't and hopefully won't get that far.

So like I said, not a disagreement but then, not really in agreement with you there.

There's tricks and methods to make these heli's fly you pick up with experience,

Is it fair to say that you can learn the skills to get the Venom flying correctly by flying a contra? I can't answer that but I think you are suggesting that the contra helis are good for learning flying skills mainly and not setup skills. I haven't got that far yet. I haven't flown it.

If the battery on my Venom had been completely dead and unchargeable (is that a real word? ), would you still be suggesting I had chosen the wrong heli?

You've chosen a very twitchy machine to learn to fly on, with no experience how to make her fly better, and now your in this situation.

That may be. But I also noted in the manual that I can move the servo anchor points to the inner hole which will reduce the sensitivity somewhat and also reduce the head speed to make it more docile. These things involve unscrewing things and playing around with settings that I don't fully understand. Before I attempt them, I would like to seek more advice, probably on this very forum.

So what could have been a fulfilling hobby is turning into a disaster because you jumped in a little deeper then you should.

You might be right here. But I would like to think that it's not a disaster yet and I am just experiencing teething troubles, or a dodgy dealer selling me faulty goods. Time will tell. When I said I would write this heli off as a bad experience I didn't mean I was giving my new hobby one weekend and then spitting my dummy out. I am still very much into the idea of getting into it and if that means I now shelve the Venom and go out and buy a contra then I may well do that. I always have options.

Going off at a tangent, I have seen many posts on these forums about how expensive this hobby is. If I were to take the 140 quid I have already spent on the heli and then double it. Twice. I wouldn't call it expensive? I play drums. I have a 2.5K quid drum kit. That's an expensive hobby. I run a part time video company. That's expensive! I have a state of the art PC that I built and maintain myself. NOT an expensive hobby. I wouldn't say I am rich and have money to burn. I only make as much money as the next guy. But just how expensive is expensive? 60 Quid a week? I used to spend that on beer and fast food on a Friday night, every week. It's all relative.

Just my pennies worth, but IMHO your choice would have been the last heli I'd have started to learning with!

For you maybe. But I have a philosophy. If I am going to do something, I do it properly. I research and buy what I think is quality kit. That doesn't mean I always get it right of course. But it does mean I give it a fair whack and plough a healthy dose of time and energy into it. From the research I did on the contras, they just didn't turn me on. I didn't think at the time that I could maintain an interest in R/C helis with one of them. I still believe that. What works for you might not work for me.

But thanks very much for your input. It is fair to say I am probably having more fun in this online community / forum than flying so far. It's not all bad.

And lastly I must ask for the sake of completeness. What's your opinion? Driver error, incorrect and inexperienced setup or fault heli?


Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[Boggy]

the last bit is easy pilot error coupled with inexperience coupled with poorly set up heli coupled with inexperienced set up!

im not familiar with the venom does it have a tail motor or belt drive.? it strikes me nobody has given you any set up advice just opinions on how youv'e bought a wrong un!
now if it has a belt drive the servo may need repositioning. and a little basic set up should get you in the air.

so what is it belt or motor?.
does it have ccpm?

post a couple of pics if you can of the head assy and the tail assy and the servo setup! for both. and well see if we can get it flying!

[del19_82]

Im probably one of the very few that would disagree about starting with a contra heli. I started with Twister CPv2 and it was crap tbh but it helped me learn to hover & thats what i wanted from it really. I then bought a Raptor 30v2 as i wanted to go down the Nitro route (i will be buying a 500 this year though). I own a copy of *cough*realflight G3.5*cough* sim but i use it very rarely, maybe 10 minutes a week or so!!

What im trying to say is that you dont really have to get a contra to learn to fly, it will help with orientation & get you stick time but i personally wasnt interested in contra's either. I learned to hover on my own with the twister but joined a club when i bought my Rappy & the guys in the club have been fantastic in helping me to fly, using encouragement, the buddy lead & just standing next to me when i am flying, guiding me through my learning curve.

[consultant125]

the last bit is easy pilot error coupled with inexperience coupled with poorly set up heli coupled with inexperienced set up!

Ah, you took the easy way out!

im not familiar with the venom does it have a tail motor or belt drive.?

It has a little tail motor. The motor doesn't spin when the main rota is idling. When the heli starts to get twitchy as the throttle is increase and spin to the left, it starts to spin but doesn't seem to make much difference. I guess that means the gyro is sensing something isn't right but not correcting it fully? I should also point out that the Venom is tail heavy out of the box and I haven't found a way to move the battery forward or shorten the boom none-descructively (hack saw? )

it strikes me nobody has given you any set up advice just opinions on how youv'e bought a wrong un!

It does seem a bit like that. But give 'em chance.

now if it has a belt drive the servo may need repositioning.

By that you mean there are helicopters out there that use a servo to maintain the pitch of the tail rotor? They must be quite fiddly and complicated! The Venom doesn't have that though.

so what is it belt or motor?

Motor. Definately motor.

does it have ccpm?

Checking manual....

RTF, CCPM, 6ch FM, 3 servos. So, yes. Pics to follow. Thanks for the assist.

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[consultant125]

Hi!

Pics are here. I think they should be attached to this message?


Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[Boggy]

first thing is dip switches 2 and 4 should be over to the right! then center the trim.

when the main blades start up the tail should start to move,if not turn up the limit pot.( the tail should spin anticlockwise when viewed from the right hand side,,,, the right hand side when looking forward from the rear of the tail)

[cambs flyer]

I'm pleased you've had some expert guidance, and hopefully with luck she'll be hovering and beyond very soon.

I could only offer the experience road I took and what worked for me, however this is one "learning curve" I won't be repeating again, and just "let be" work it's way through.

I couldn't offer any advice on her workings as I've no knowledge of her, only learning easier helis to fly as a starter can be quite difficult, and that you've taken the next step up in that learning process which seemed to be getting the better of you, which would have been a shame.

Anyway it's been a good lesson learned here for me also, and I wish you continues success.

[moyesboy]

You ask if this hobby is expensive.

a year of flying a raptor 50
raptor 50 used, £420 complete bar tx. Tx £99.
3 boxes of 4 US gallons fuel at £65 each (that is 12 gallons which is a fairly keen pilots usage for a season. A mad keen pilot will use 40 gallons).
3 crashes at £300 total (blades were 50 quid a time)
Unecessary upgrades that made me feel happy, £100.

Alternative
New trex 450 with charger, tx and 3 lipos - £700?
5 crashes total £150 (crashes, more frequent, but cheaper)
no fuel cost.

Add on onto that the club/BMFA membership for insurance - £65?

I'm listing it, but not adding it up. I will never ever ever add it up, just don't go there.
Its like going on holiday and thinking this is costing me x per hour in lost earnings - happiness doesn't lie down that route!


Note the 450 is harder to fly, cost is similar for a complete setup to a larger heli, but crash cost is a fair bit less. I wonder if the trex500 might be the ideal thing to learn on...?

[unwind-protect]

As far as I can tell, the Night Ranger 3d is a version of the Walkera 52. I have found a thread on setting up said heli at: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...52+transmitter It looks like V1 is the knob to use to set throttle to rudder mixing. Additionally, I believe if you push the rudder trim all the way left before switching on the heli, it may give 'extra' right trim.

Other things you might like to check are that the tail rotor is rotating in the correct direction (up at the front), the tail rotor is on the right way round (looks like it is). Tail motors in particular can burn out quite easily I think, so if you think the heli's been previously abused, I guess that's an option.

Am I expecting too much to think I should be able to hover it relatively hands free in my living room? Or at least set it up to do something resembling this?

A conventional 'single rotor' heli will never hands-off hover for more than a few seconds at a time; they require constant pilot input. The smaller they are, the more they are affected by currents of air, including their own downdraft, even if their setup is perfect.

By that you mean there are helicopters out there that use a servo to maintain the pitch of the tail rotor? They must be quite fiddly and complicated!

Yes, most helicopters run the tail rotor off the main motor, and change the blade pitch to control thrust, in the same way as your main rotor does. It may be slightly more complicated, but give much better tail control. And it's a lot less complicated than a collective pitch rotor head!

I'm listing it, but not adding it up. I will never ever ever add it up, just don't go there.

I did that once, after about a year's learning. I try to kid myself that the crashes are much less frequent now... and, yes, I will never add it up again!

[consultant125]

raptor 50 used, £420 complete bar tx. Tx £99.

Ouch!

3 boxes of 4 US gallons fuel at £65 each (that is 12 gallons which is a fairly keen pilots usage for a season. A mad keen pilot will use 40 gallons).

Ouch!

3 crashes at £300 total (blades were 50 quid a time)

Ouch!

Unecessary upgrades that made me feel happy, £100.

Ouch!

It's expensive! Still, it's not THAT expensive is it?

Think I'll go and look up this 'Trex 500' machine.

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[consultant125]

As far as I can tell, the Night Ranger 3d is a version of the Walkera 52.

I believe you are spot on there.

I have found a thread on setting up said heli at: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...52+transmitter It looks like V1 is the knob to use to set throttle to rudder mixing. Additionally, I believe if you push the rudder trim all the way left before switching on the heli, it may give 'extra' right trim.

That is a great thread! I have actually read it before but I have now just spent an hour going through it, checking every single bit is right and I even put the spare blades on because they were slightly better balanced. They are now perfect to my inexperienced eye. I put the rudder trim full over to the left before switching on the TX and then the Heli. I then trimmed all the way to the right and the Heli STILL spins left on take off.

I think it's a little bit better than it was. My living room isn't that big (average size I reckon) and the Heli seems to fly in left circuits and right full rudder (sounds like I got incoming torps!) AND right full rudder trim isn't enough to bring it back and turn it the opposite way. I think if I was in a sports hall and was confident of throwing the throttle to full, the Heli would probably fly in ten foot diameter circles.

The only other thing I noticed is that sometimes the big cog rubs on the underside of the boom mount bracket and sometimes the cog seems perfectly level. I have not worked out why the heli does this and what is changing to make it do it. It's not like I can even say I have crashed it to bend the shaft or chassis. It's all very strange.

Thanks for the info.

Regards,

A.
www.carillonvideo.co.uk

[AJ Jelly]

Hello and welcome.
Say bye bye to your cash now. Its a great hobby not been learning for very long but I am hooked. Managed to get A Raptor 50 Titan and loving it to bits!!! The Phoenix sim has saved me loads of cash in blades alone. A very good buy.

[Boggy]

if the heli is spinning left your actually getting to much tail authority! try turning the limit pot anticlockwise.
then set the delay pot at about 60 and try that!