Autorotation for real with the DX6i

i want to move from autorotations on Phoenix to the real thing with my 450 Pro. i've been using the throttle cut button on the DX6i on the sim but is there another/better way. i have my throttle hold switch set up to 0 pitch and 0 throttle as a fail safe at the moment.

how do you guys do it for real ?

steve

[bolders]

Use throttle hold switch and setup a linear TH pitch curve instead of 0 is the only way really - im not sure having 0 pitch gives you any more security than having a curve set anyhow (as long as your throttle is set to 0).
However looking at your sig it appears you dont have helis any bigger than a 450 - They are difficult to auto and give no room for error. If you have not done any autos before it would be recommended to start out on a much bigger heli - ideally a 50 size or above.

[scuba steve]

yes i have 2 x 450 size helis to learn on (my bashers). i get what you mean about a bigger heli but the expense is too much for me. i didn't know you could set a TH pitch curve on the DX6i but i will check that. thanks.

[Ross Northcott]

It will end in tears if you try a auto on a 450 for the first time, either find somewhere that can offer a lesson or buddy box with a friend but try to use a .50 size machine first.

[Gate88]

It'll end in tears you have to be really good at autos on a larger model before you can do them on a small one.
I can auto my Trex600 and my Velocity 50 very well but I've never managed to do a single successful auto on my 450.

[LaurenceGough]

It will end in tears if you try a auto on a 450 for the first time, either find somewhere that can offer a lesson or buddy box with a friend but try to use a .50 size machine first.

Not at all, I learnt on my 450 and it was actually quite easy, you just have to have a bit of wind. I started by autoing forwards into the wind from behind to get the feel and then moved onto the side autos into the wind.


My Trex 450 pro with 325s autos 90% as well as my Logo 600 with 603mm main blades thanks to the torque tube and Radix blades.

Edit:

Not only that but you can pretty much land it on it's side without damage!! I went through my vids and I can only find one inverted auto not really worthy of a youtube video for just one, will have to record some more!!

[cjcj1949]

I haven't done one for real, but have done a lot on Phoenix. They become easier on any heli if you understand the Physics of what is going on. You are using the energy stored in the rotors and the energy from falling, or the wind to control the descent. It's like the old lunar lander game. All the time the heli is in the air you are losing energy. The quicker you can get down the less energy you need. You also need to protect the energy stored in the rotors by reducing the angle of the blades. If you set a really high rpm before you hit throttle hold (3000) and then reduce to -4 degrees the heli will fall quickly, which is what you want. Then when close to the ground change to max positive collective and judge it perfectly to land gently.

Bigger helis are easier because of the way the physics work with changes of scale, but provided you set a high enough headspeed you can auto a 450 easily. At least on the sim. It's probably a good idea to make sure that your esc doesn't have a delayed start after being shut down. I know mine does.

Chris

[Ross Northcott]

Not at all, I learnt on my 450 and it was actually quite easy, you just have to have a bit of wind. I started by autoing forwards into the wind from behind to get the feel and then moved onto the side autos into the wind.


My Trex 450 pro with 325s autos 90% as well as my Logo 600 with 603mm main blades thanks to the torque tube and Radix blades.

Edit:

Not only that but you can pretty much land it on it's side without damage!! I went through my vids and I can only find one inverted auto not really worthy of a youtube video for just one, will have to record some more!!

Sorry i disagree that for someone who has never done a auto that a 450 is even a option, i never said that a 450 wont auto just not advisable for learning them on.
Steve please do try one and let us know how much damage you cause to your heli.

[Boggy]

mmm.?strange advice to be giving a newby!Actually quite easy!? pretty much land it on its side without damage!? ...Get recording laurence put the vids up

[gorber]

I haven't done one for real, but have done a lot on Phoenix. They become easier on any heli if you understand the Physics of what is going on. You are using the energy stored in the rotors and the energy from falling, or the wind to control the descent. It's like the old lunar lander game. All the time the heli is in the air you are losing energy. The quicker you can get down the less energy you need. You also need to protect the energy stored in the rotors by reducing the angle of the blades. If you set a really high rpm before you hit throttle hold (3000) and then reduce to -4 degrees the heli will fall quickly, which is what you want. Then when close to the ground change to max positive collective and judge it perfectly to land gently.

Bigger helis are easier because of the way the physics work with changes of scale, but provided you set a high enough headspeed you can auto a 450 easily. At least on the sim. It's probably a good idea to make sure that your esc doesn't have a delayed start after being shut down. I know mine does.

Chris

What you are describing is not an auto. In an auto, you transfer the energy of the falling heli into spinning the blades and then use the energy you have put into the blades to arrest the descent at the bottom. That is how people can do blade stop autos, restarting the blades without any power other than the wind washing over the blades. They are effectively starting the auto with zero headspeed. It is also why you can auto from great height.

[LaurenceGough]

mmm.?strange advice to be giving a newby!Actually quite easy!? pretty much land it on its side without damage!? ...Get recording laurence put the vids up

Yeah, that's the best thing, such low headspeed... I must have landed about 15-25 only for it to tip over with no damage at all. Only things that are harder than a bigger heli is the final part on the landing and precision accuracy of where you want to land. I tell you what compared to an expensive heli the confidence boost knowing you will do none or a few quids worth of damage is much more of a bonus.

Will dust off my 450 and try to get some vids this weekend one issue is that our new field is not at all even for landing 450s.

Confidence is #1 when learning to do something... And a 450 will give you that unless you're rich .

I recommend a bit of forward speed from standing behind into the wind on the last step.


Let me know if you want a go in Phoenix with me online.

[cjcj1949]

Regarding the auto that isn't an auto. I did oversimplify and omitted the conversion of potential energy into rotational energy, I just concentrated on not losing the energy in the rotors. I have tried to restart the blades while the heli is falling, but I have been unable to do that. Perhaps I need to be higher up or use a bigger heli or a different collective angle. Perhaps you can describe how to do this or give a reference. I'm just using the terminology in Phoenix, I didn't realise that you had to start from stationary blades. I've found it quite easy to stop the blades rotating by holding in positive collective.

Using the wind is just a way of using more stored energy to make life easier. You are adding in the kinetic energy of motion and converting it into rotational energy. It is a bit tricky though and the bigger heli the easier it seems to be, if the sim is right. You can come down at a sensible speed with the bigger helis and hover for a few seconds before landing. With the 450s on the sim its more hit and crash. It does depend on the energy you can get into the rotors and this is I w**2/2 where I is the moment of inertia and w is omega or angular velocity in rads/sec. I suppose if you convert too much potential or kinetic energy into rotation you can overrev the blades and break them.

Chris

[Rob O]

Have to agree with Ross & Ron on this one . I,ve seen some really good Pilots struggle to nail an Auto on a 450 , theres just not enough energy stored in 325mm Blades . It can be Done i agree but it,s very hit & miss . All you can do is try it . But make sure you take a bin bag with you or at least a shed load of spares because iv,e a nasty feeling you,re going to need them . I think my advice would be if you want to try one use a 50 size machine . Good Luck . Rob

[gorber]

Chris,

The blades don't have to stop for it to be an auto, I just referred to that extreme example to illustrate that it wasn't just about saving the initial energy in the blades, but feeding energy into them. I have never attempted a blade stop auto in real life because I fear it would result in a total loss, maybe when I am a LOT better pilot than I am now, but I have done them in Phoenix with a success rate of maybe about 10-20%.

[cjcj1949]

I've been practising and it is dead easy on the sim. From 70m with a 450 I can stop the blades drop the collective to full negative, get the blades spinning and then land in the middle of the target. Well some of the time and some of the time the heli is not in bits. Not sure when I'll be doing it for real though. There's no time to think about the physics though.

Chris