What Module for FF9 ???

[Randall]

Hi All

Well i keep getting glitches on my 450 (none on my planks) and its really holding me back now as i just dont trust the radio gear i have tried everything but i think im just going to get a 2.4 set but i love my FF9 so i just think i will get a Module for the ff9 so my choices are

Furaba 8 channel 2.4ghz
http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/futa...le-p-3657.html

Or Spektrum 2.4ghz
http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/spek...er-p-2217.html

I much prefer the spektrum for its antenna that mounts in the correct place where the old one was, appart from that price does not matter i just want the best.

Cheers
Jay

[Pipistrelli]

Jay,

I have the Spektrum module and cannot fault it. I have had no problems and can recommend it. However, I cant comment on the futaba system.

In my eyes spektrum have led this development, so they are the market leaders. The only niggle I have is that the Spektrum aerial connector on the back of the module is bulky, but doesn't cause any issues actually in-use

[DemonJim]

My recommendation is to not buy a module at all for the FF9, ie don't get a TM-8 or a Spektrum module.

Although the FF9 looks great and has a superb user interface (I had one myself), I say sell the FF9 as a complete 35MHz unit and buy either an FF7 2.4GHz or a Spektrum DX7, and all your 450 lockout woes will be a thing of the past. This is exactly what I did for the very same reason.

The reason for not just getting a module though is the FF9 has horrifically slow swashplate mixing, which you can literally see if you use fast cyclic servos. This is because eCCPM heli swash mixing was a really late addition to the FF9's software and as a result of it being slapped on the end it costs loads of frames to do, which later TXs (eg the 2.4GHz 7C and even the 6EX) don't suffer from.

The FF9 always comes out the worst on latency tests - check out this classic runryder thread and see if you still want to invest more money into it http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/. And these tables are just latency to the servo beginning to move, they don't show how because the frame rate is so low the servo speed is actually restricted (as my mate found out when he put some 9257s on a T-Rex 500 cyclic).

So my recommendation would be to seriously consider the FF7 2.4 (the user interface is very similar to the FF9's although you do lose the graphs). It even has a dedicated governor option (not present on the 35MHz version). If you're never going to put fast servos on a heli you'll be OK with the FF9 and a module (be it Futaba or Spektrum), but now you can see why it's being replaced with the 10C.

[Randall]

Thanks for the Info !

I dont think i would like to take a step back to a FF7 (bit of a gadget man) but i would like the new 10c just i want it now ! haha, either that or a good JR setup with 2.4 i have been futaba all my flying years but i would move to JR if there was a good 9+ channel setup but there really seems to be a lack of good tx's out there !

Im just getting fed up of all those glitches you get then it drops a couple of feet and really puts you off getting sick of it now.

Well thanks again i will just have to wait i guess

Jay

My recommendation is to not buy a module at all for the FF9, ie don't get a TM-8 or a Spektrum module.

Although the FF9 looks great and has a superb user interface (I had one myself), I say sell the FF9 as a complete 35MHz unit and buy either an FF7 2.4GHz or a Spektrum DX7, and all your 450 lockout woes will be a thing of the past. This is exactly what I did for the very same reason.

The reason for not just getting a module though is the FF9 has horrifically slow swashplate mixing, which you can literally see if you use fast cyclic servos. This is because eCCPM heli swash mixing was a really late addition to the FF9's software and as a result of it being slapped on the end it costs loads of frames to do, which later TXs (eg the 2.4GHz 7C and even the 6EX) don't suffer from.

The FF9 always comes out the worst on latency tests - check out this classic runryder thread and see if you still want to invest more money into it http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/. And these tables are just latency to the servo beginning to move, they don't show how because the frame rate is so low the servo speed is actually restricted (as my mate found out when he put some 9257s on a T-Rex 500 cyclic).

So my recommendation would be to seriously consider the FF7 2.4 (the user interface is very similar to the FF9's although you do lose the graphs). It even has a dedicated governor option (not present on the 35MHz version). If you're never going to put fast servos on a heli you'll be OK with the FF9 and a module (be it Futaba or Spektrum), but now you can see why it's being replaced with the 10C.

[t-rex pedro]

My recommendation is to not buy a module at all for the FF9, ie don't get a TM-8 or a Spektrum module.

Although the FF9 looks great and has a superb user interface (I had one myself), I say sell the FF9 as a complete 35MHz unit and buy either an FF7 2.4GHz or a Spektrum DX7, and all your 450 lockout woes will be a thing of the past. This is exactly what I did for the very same reason.

The reason for not just getting a module though is the FF9 has horrifically slow swashplate mixing, which you can literally see if you use fast cyclic servos. This is because eCCPM heli swash mixing was a really late addition to the FF9's software and as a result of it being slapped on the end it costs loads of frames to do, which later TXs (eg the 2.4GHz 7C and even the 6EX) don't suffer from.

The FF9 always comes out the worst on latency tests - check out this classic runryder thread and see if you still want to invest more money into it http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/. And these tables are just latency to the servo beginning to move, they don't show how because the frame rate is so low the servo speed is actually restricted (as my mate found out when he put some 9257s on a T-Rex 500 cyclic).

So my recommendation would be to seriously consider the FF7 2.4 (the user interface is very similar to the FF9's although you do lose the graphs). It even has a dedicated governor option (not present on the 35MHz version). If you're never going to put fast servos on a heli you'll be OK with the FF9 and a module (be it Futaba or Spektrum), but now you can see why it's being replaced with the 10C.

Does this apply to the 9c Super too?

Pete

[DemonJim]

Does this apply to the 9c Super too?

Pete

Unfortunately it does yes. It's a real shame as otherwise it's a great radio, but if you fly helis with really fast eCCPM servos (eg BLS451s or 9257s) it pretty much halves their speed - wasting your investment in good servos.

Note it's ok of course if you're using mechanical CCPM as it's not doing its own swash mixing - the problem is the 3-S swashplate modes.

So anybody using an FF9 with cyclic servos faster than about 0.16s (60deg) should do a simple test - move a cylic servo in your normal heli model memory then try it in an aero mode (or H-1 swash mode). If you can't tell a difference then no probs. I know for a fact if you're using anything faster than 0.1s to 60deg it is very noticable (not only can you hear them going slower you can even see it).

[DemonJim]

If you want pure gadget bling the 12FG is the one to get - it even has cyclic ring in software to prevent diagonal binding but allowing full ail/pitch. I would buy one tomorrow if it had 2.4 actually integrated like the FF7 and not as a module (you may guess I'm not a fan of module systems where the antenna isn't where it should be).

I actually prefer the feel of my FF7 to my old FF9 - I even prefer the more spikey stick ends. I do miss not having curve graphs though

Thanks for the Info !

I dont think i would like to take a step back to a FF7 (bit of a gadget man) but i would like the new 10c just i want it now ! haha, either that or a good JR setup with 2.4 i have been futaba all my flying years but i would move to JR if there was a good 9+ channel setup but there really seems to be a lack of good tx's out there !

Im just getting fed up of all those glitches you get then it drops a couple of feet and really puts you off getting sick of it now.

Well thanks again i will just have to wait i guess

Jay

[t-rex pedro]

Unfortunately it does yes. It's a real shame as otherwise it's a great radio, but if you fly helis with really fast eCCPM servos (eg BLS451s or 9257s) it pretty much halves their speed - wasting your investment in good servos.

Note it's ok of course if you're using mechanical CCPM as it's not doing its own swash mixing - the problem is the 3-S swashplate modes.

So anybody using an FF9 with cyclic servos faster than about 0.16s (60deg) should do a simple test - move a cylic servo in your normal heli model memory then try it in an aero mode (or H-1 swash mode). If you can't tell a difference then no probs. I know for a fact if you're using anything faster than 0.1s to 60deg it is very noticable (not only can you hear them going slower you can even see it).

Does this mean that any servo speed would be halved using that theory? I have 3152's at the moment which are not the fastest but does my 9c make them even slower?

[Ade_Law]

sorry to take this off at a bit of a tangent...

The reason for not just getting a module though is the FF9 has horrifically slow swashplate mixing, which you can literally see if you use fast cyclic servos. This is because eCCPM heli swash mixing was a really late addition to the FF9's software and as a result of it being slapped on the end it costs loads of frames to do,

it was the 8U (ff8) that the CCPM was an after thought on as they later added it to the 8U super.

wonder why they never fixed it on the 9c or the super! Maybe it was an 8u with a UI tweek?

Ade

[t-rex pedro]

sorry to take this off at a bit of a tangent...



it was the 8U (ff8) that the CCPM was an after thought on as they later added it to the 8U super.

wonder why they never fixed it on the 9c or the super! Maybe it was an 8u with a UI tweek?

Ade

Sorry for being dumb Ade, but whats a 'UI tweek'?

Pete

[DemonJim]

Does this mean that any servo speed would be halved using that theory? I have 3152's at the moment which are not the fastest but does my 9c make them even slower?

No, it will only limit extremely fast servos, it won't slow down 3152s as they are relatively slow (around 0.18s to 60deg IIRC). Futaba BLS451s are mentally fast -- when the swash mixing was coded on the FF9 [as a bodge on top of the original FF8 software] servos as fast as that on helis could only have been dreamt about, so at the time I presume they didn't think it would be a problem.

Oh and btw 'UI' just means User Interface - ie it refers to the menus and input control.

[t-rex pedro]

Thanks very much for the reply and info Demonjim.

Very helpful indeed.

I was thinking of investing in some 451's but looks like i'd be wasting money based on this. Any way around it without buying a new tx? Also, whats the best futaba servo to take full advantage of using the 9c?

Pete

[DemonJim]

The only way to get round it is to use a cyclock or something - ie don't do the eCCPM mixing in the TX (and do it in an on-board mixer).

Not sure about the fastest servos you can get without the FF9's mixing framerate being the limiting factor, but I suspect it's something like anything faster than 0.12s to 60deg may take a speed hit, but anything slower will be fine. This is only a rough guess though, I do know that when I had 3050s on my 600 at 6V and used an FF9 I never noticed a problem with the cyclic speed, although the general input response latency did sharpen up noticably when moving to the FASST FF7.

[t-rex pedro]

I'm running 3050's on one of my 600's at 6v but want to upgrade the 3152's ive got on another one (if that makes sense!). Thanks for the help Jim. Great stuff and something for me to think about if and when my skills progess and warrant faster servos.

Pete

[beatnik]

DemonJim is spot on mentioning how slow the FF9 & FF9 Super are at CCPM mixing. The CCPM speed of my S9257 servos on my Trex 500 was so noticeable on the bench that I didn't even bother flying it until I had changed my transmitter.

It's a real shame that Futaba don't publish any "frame rate" information about the various mixing modes on their transmitters. Having to find out for yourself is an expensive way to uncover the problems.

I decided to sell the FF9 with the 35MHz module, and also get rid of the TM-7 2.4GHz module. I don't really blame Futaba, it's just that times have changed and the FF9 is now really out of date.

My choices were to go with the excellent FF7 2.4GHz FASST, or convince the wife that she didn't need another foreign holiday and go for the 12FG with TM-14 module.

Surfice to say that my wife will be enjoying some "quality time" at home this summer while I go flying with the 12FG - a fantastic transmitter that offers significantly more features over the FF9. The new 10C will be a great transmitter, but it's very much a more modern version of the FF9. For real software improvements it has to be the 12FG.

As a final note I'll say that while I did eventually sell the FF9 and TM-7 because of speed issues, for the time I flew with it (8 months) I had 100% reliability.