Scorpion HK vs HKIII

[StreetDragster]

Hi All,

I'm lead to believe that the HKIII motors are 'better' than the HK ones, but i'm new to electrics and i don't understand why, could someone please explain?

I'm looking for one for a 550E, and i gather from what other owners have fitted that a HK-4025-630 and a HKIII-4025-650 is popular, just wondering if the price difference is justified

Thanks

Matt

Scorpion HK-4025-630KV (6mm Shaft) - Scorpion Power System

Scorpion HKIII-4025-650KV (6mm) - Scorpion Power System

[nitros]

i don't know i i'm interested

[richieclarkie]

Hi Matt

OK I'm going to straight quote this from Mr Mel.

There are several key differences between the earlier HKII series motors and the new HKIII series motors from Scorpion. Here’s the break-down: 1. The new HKIII motors use a different alloy in the stator laminations. This material has a higher efficiency and lower hysteresis for less internal losses and less internal heating of the motor. 2. The shape of the stator has changed to concentrate more of the magnetic flux fields towards the magnet faces for greater efficiency and higher torque. 3. The rotor can of the new HKIII motors is made of a new alloy that retains more of the magnetic fields and also helps to increase the motor efficiency. 4. The rotor can features a new spiral cut cooling fin pattern that not only increases the flux pattern for the magnetic fields in the motor, it also increases the surface area and acts as a built-in heatsink for better cooling. Unlike other motors, that use a series of circular cuts in the rotor can, the HKIII motor use a continuous cut from one end of the motor to the other. This actually pulls air down the sides of the motor for increased cooling and lower operating temperatures. This new cooling technique has been patented in several countries worldwide. 5. All of the changes to increase the efficiency in the motor naturally cause the motor to have a lower Kv value. In order to get the Kv value back up where it originally was, the motors are wound with fewer turns of wire. Since fewer turns are needed, the wire used to wind the motors can be larger. This allows for lower internal resistance (Rm) in the motors, and also increases their current handling capability. 6. The HKIII version has 10poles vs 8 on the older version. So the HKIII will deliver more torque.

On a personal note I've been running the HKIII-4035-560 in my 10s Logo 600 and it's been really excellent. I fly 6-8 3D flights back to back with mine and the power available remains the same with no drop off even if the motor is pretty warm at the end of the previous flight.

The main thing is to find out which is the best Motor KV/Pinion combination for the 550.

[vinny155]

im running the 4025-1100 kv motor in my 550 running 6s,the motors you are looking at would be better suited to 10 or 12s

[LaurenceGough]

And when they keep repeating "greater efficiency" what they really mean is a right powerhouse with much less flight time than the last versions.

Same motor specs, just V3 my flight time dropped about 2 minutes, but the power is insane. Maybe it is just because I am making use of the extra power...

I would recommend the V3 anyhow for the points made in the post above by Richie.

[Cuppa]

I;ve been trying to avoid getting into this one! as on the face of it i know very little about rc helis, and how the electric component works in technical terms, motor, esc. but from my very limited knowlege i know the HK type get too dam hot and load the esc and make it run hot! when you start to push the heli. now to me hot means inefficiant and more likely to fail. I have changed my HK5020-520Kv for this reason and put the 350S HK III 4035-500Kv in my X7 now runs nice n cool so dose the 120+HV powerjive with just as much grunt as the 500Kv motor. mild 3D flights of 4mins leaving me 26% in the packs which i would assume is about right for a 90 heli.

cheers
Cuppa

[GravityKills]

Hi,

I owned a 4035 years back in an electric 700, and it was a pile of cr*p.
Now I've got a HK III 4035 in my X7 and it's an excellent motor (7:30 min flight time of low-headspeed "backyard 3D").

It's dangerous to generalize, but I believe that the newer motors have improved considerably. In my opinion, the choice of motor is more important than what heli kit you buy.

I wouldn't waste my own time with a first-series Scorpion motor even if I got it for free (unless I knew that this particular motor is efficient).

[StreetDragster]

im running the 4025-1100 kv motor in my 550 running 6s,the motors you are looking at would be better suited to 10 or 12s

Thanks for all replies, very helpful, seems it is worth the extra to get a HKIII version.

Regarding the motor choice, like i say, i'm new to this.

I was basing this selection around what other 550E owners had, and the supplied 600MX motor from align is a 3300w/5500w 510kv motor.

Is there a better choice?

As with all things electrical, I'm learning that everything is related, so I best detail my planned spec here
550E, stock main gear, 16 or 17t pinion.
Turnigy 30C 4000mAh 6S Lipos
YGE 80A ESC
Sport to light 3D flying
Stock Blades

Thanks

Matt

[jasoncook]

I am pretty sure the motor you are referencing is for the new 600e the 550 is about 1200Kv from what I remember of mine. My 700 Motors are 510 on 12S ?

I have now sold my 550 but after lots of messing here was a very good spec for it.

Stock gears 17t 2400 governed on the head or 2200 governed sweet on both.
Castle beck pro.
Castle 110 ESC you will peak a 600mx at 100 amps.
Lipos defo go over 40 C or opti packs that are 30c but will still gas off on a 550.
520 blades.
Flew for 5.30 with 20 % left


Beast x unit transformed it from 3g unit

[steve_b]

Thanks for all replies, very helpful, seems it is worth the extra to get a HKIII version.

Regarding the motor choice, like i say, i'm new to this.

I was basing this selection around what other 550E owners had, and the supplied 600MX motor from align is a 3300w/5500w 510kv motor.

Is there a better choice?

As with all things electrical, I'm learning that everything is related, so I best detail my planned spec here
550E, stock main gear, 16 or 17t pinion.
Turnigy 30C 4000mAh 6S Lipos
YGE 80A ESC
Sport to light 3D flying
Stock Blades

Thanks

Matt

The motor you're quoting there is the one for the 600, which is designed for 12s. The one you want is this one HML60M02 600MX Brushless Motor(1220KV) RCM-BL600MX which is a 1220 KV.

I'm no expert but to put it crudely the KV rating is the number of times the motor should turn per volt, so the motor above is suited for 6S (550), but the 510KV motor would need to be 12S to get near to the same RPM as it's RPM / Volt is over half the other one, if that makes sense.

It is a bit of pain that Align chose to call both motors the 600MX as 550MX would have made more sense for the 550 motor

[vinny155]

the 600mx for the 550 is around 1200kv,the 600mx for the 12s600e pro is much lower as its running 12s,one of the lads at the club is running a 12s 550 with a 630kv motor in it,have you got a link to where that motor is supplied with a 550,the 4025-1100 is more than enough for a 550 but you need a decent esc for it,i was running a kontronic koby 90lv but was experiancing shutdowns in flight with it,it would hover fine but when pushed it shutdown,ive got a 100lv on it now and its fine,all the power you will ever need,its mental.....the stock main gear on a new 550 kit is helical gear and requires a lower count pinion,14t