Flybar Weights

[trillian]

Yeah with 450s there's only so much you can do as they're subject to being blown around a bit regardless. In general if the flybar is too heavy the result is the heli will get blown with the wind, if the flybar is too light it will 'over correct' and the heli will try to move into the wind, so there's an ideal weight where it stays put pretty much. This will be different depending on the flybar ratio etc.

I still have a Beam E4 original flybarred version and the head geometry is a bit different so that it works with lighter paddles and if I were to use the same weights I used on the Trex it would be way too heavy and sluggish.

I kinda drifted away from 450s in general over the years but earlier this year I got a very nice 2nd hand Beam E4 SE (DFC style FBL head) so I'm going to try building up a FBL 450 and see just how stable it can be and if I like flying it I'll start taking it with me along with whatever else I'm flying on a given day. (I thought about stretching it using a G5 boom I have BTW but I think for the moment I'll try it in original size, 325mm blades first).

[scallybert]

My FBL T-Rex 450 Pros are pretty good; but they seem to benefit from really good servos (DS95, etc) for stability; and they also have Skookums. You can carry loads of LiPos...

[Granpappy]

Well, a long long time ago, in a galaxy far away....

That will be Ipswich then. No Jedi Knights around here to teach me the force. I guess I'll have to use a flybar. (Properly tuned of course.)

[trillian]

My FBL T-Rex 450 Pros are pretty good; but they seem to benefit from really good servos (DS95, etc) for stability; and they also have Skookums. You can carry loads of LiPos...

Yeah I was thinking I could even wear the Beam in a specially made holster and have 'ammo' belts of LiPos.

I have a DS95 for the tail that I was using on my Trex and I just got three TGY-S306Gs for the swash. I'm still undecided on the FBL unit, I got a Spirit but may sell it on and just get another Spartan VX1N as I'm familiar with them and know I can get good results quickly.

[Granpappy]

and they also have Skookums.

Sounds like a vitamin deficiency.

[scallybert]

[...]

I have a DS95 for the tail that I was using on my Trex and I just got three TGY-S306Gs for the swash.

The DS95i is the tail servo - though I'm sure a 95 would cope.

I'm sure that if I was going away from Skookums it would be to VXs.

[Granpappy]

I found this on the site which is very useful. The post on Paddles has a PDF attached.

http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/setup-...3-paddles.html

http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/setup-...ios-delta.html

[Granpappy]

After a bit of flying with the 450 this morning, the flybar is definitely over responsive. A gust of wind and it pitches into wind and travels up wind quite rapidly. Therefore, from all that I've been told, more weight is required. Or change the flybar ratio. That's a new concept.

The interesting thing about the articles I mentioned above is that you can tune the flybar ratio so that the blades have a greater pitch movement in relation to flybar movement. It doesn't quite explain how you can adjust that but having looked at the mechanics of how it all works I think I can see a way.

I'm starting to find flybars quite fascinating. I've never really given them a second thought beyond just building them and setting them up iaw the construction manual that comes with the kit. But now understanding to a certain extent about how they can be tuned makes for an exciting voyage of discovery that goes beyond just typing numbers in to an FBL controller setup program.

But I guess that's how I roll. Always trying to do things the hard way.

[trillian]

Yeah on the old style Trex rotorheads the flybar ratio is not adjustable without changing the mixer arm or drilling a new hole in the seesaw. I would not recommend either as it works just fine as-is. I think the later style with the mixer arm on the grips might be adjustable.

I generally tried for as close to a one-to-one ratio as possible whenever the ratio was adjustable but never tried to change it on the Trex 450.

After a bit of flying with the 450 this morning, the flybar is definitely over responsive. A gust of wind and it pitches into wind and travels up wind quite rapidly. Therefore, from all that I've been told, more weight is required. Or change the flybar ratio. That's a new concept.

The interesting thing about the articles I mentioned above is that you can tune the flybar ratio so that the blades have a greater pitch movement in relation to flybar movement. It doesn't quite explain how you can adjust that but having looked at the mechanics of how it all works I think I can see a way.

I'm starting to find flybars quite fascinating. I've never really given them a second thought beyond just building them and setting them up iaw the construction manual that comes with the kit. But now understanding to a certain extent about how they can be tuned makes for an exciting voyage of discovery that goes beyond just typing numbers in to an FBL controller setup program.

But I guess that's how I roll. Always trying to do things the hard way.

[scallybert]

Is it the flybar, or the wind pushing the fuselage, that makes the main rotor pitch or roll into the wind ?

I'd say the latter; on that basis you want the flybar to have more authority (not an easy option); or maybe slower paddles and a higher headspeed. ie you want the flybar to do a better job resisting the effect of the wind.

[I'm guessing, though.]

[Granpappy]

Is it the flybar, or the wind pushing the fuselage, that makes the main rotor pitch or roll into the wind ?

I'd say the latter; on that basis you want the flybar to have more authority (not an easy option); or maybe slower paddles and a higher headspeed. ie you want the flybar to do a better job resisting the effect of the wind.

[I'm guessing, though.]

That is what I initially thought but I was wrong. The flybar will always react to the wind, not resist it. At the moment it is over reacting to the wind so therefore I need to reduce it's responsiveness.

[Granpappy]

Make the flybar longer.

That will make it worse.

[hedge]

Good news, there is lots and lots of help for this old tech on the net. Google "flybar length for f3c" or indeed any combination with the word F3C, this will give you plenty to read and learn. However unfortunately I suspect the issue may simply come down to "That's how the old Flybar helis fly". Remember, when reading F3C info this is for 700s not 450s (flybarred) no one would ever give a 450 that much time and effort. Why, because they are small and affected by the wind making them inaccurate. Fast forward to today with 450s using flybarless technology and yes you can expect much much more performance and tuning capability.

Flybars may be fun and nostalgic and the internet is full of advice - dare I say it on here but Runryder is the place to go for good info. On here this guy knows a thing or two Mark Christy « Team Midland he has forgotten more than most would ever know about the subject.


However I bring you back to the point that there is a very low bar limit on what a flybared 450 can do "accurately" in the wind, you may already be getting the very best you can get from it you just don't realise it. You wont find any one to relate to because no one flys 450s with flybars - ok I am sure that the 5-6 who do will now flame me, I can take it

The internet has all you need for this old tech many on here would not know what a flybar was, and those that do have forgotten what they did to improve things. I am sure you have your reasons not to, but advice would say stick a flybarless unit on it and enjoy the new improved experience.

[Granpappy]

Good news, there is lots and lots of help for this old tech on the net. Google "flybar length for f3c" or indeed any combination with the word F3C, this will give you plenty to read and learn. However unfortunately I suspect the issue may simply come down to "That's how the old Flybar helis fly". Remember, when reading F3C info this is for 700s not 450s (flybarred) no one would ever give a 450 that much time and effort. Why, because they are small and affected by the wind making them inaccurate. Fast forward to today with 450s using flybarless technology and yes you can expect much much more performance and tuning capability.

Flybars may be fun and nostalgic and the internet is full of advice - dare I say it on here but Runryder is the place to go for good info. On here this guy knows a thing or two Mark Christy « Team Midland he has forgotten more than most would ever know about the subject.


However I bring you back to the point that there is a very low bar limit on what a flybared 450 can do "accurately" in the wind, you may already be getting the very best you can get from it you just don't realise it. You wont find any one to relate to because no one flys 450s with flybars - ok I am sure that the 5-6 who do will now flame me, I can take it

The internet has all you need for this old tech many on here would not know what a flybar was, and those that do have forgotten what they did to improve things. I am sure you have your reasons not to, but advice would say stick a flybarless unit on it and enjoy the new improved experience.

Thanks for the good advice. Maybe my FB 450 is now as good as it gets, I don't know because I have nothing to compare it to at that size. Is a FBL 450 more stable in the wind then a well tuned FB 450?

[hedge]

Thanks for the good advice. Maybe my FB 450 is now as good as it gets, I don't know because I have nothing to compare it to at that size. Is a FBL 450 more stable in the wind then a well tuned FB 450?

Youll never get the all round performance of a FBL with a FB. With the smaller helis there is less overall mechanical "gyro" stability but the electronically stabilised FBL -effectively gives you constant correction at a speed you can't possibly match and hence does not need the mechanical stability to support it.