250 ~ FuBar ~ 3GX

[tourerjim]

Morning Jim.

This could be half your problem mate, this little servo lacks the torque when the tail is pushed that bit harder. I was using the older DS420 on mine but then upgraded to the DS520, which is the mid size tail servo for the Trex 500. This was the servo of choice for the little 250 to give it the torque it needed, of course there is the MKS D95i's which are fast and torquey but expensive.
.

Ive now fitted the 520 but looks very clumsy, just need to try it if it does solve problem the ill go fo the mks.

[tourerjim]

I changed to the MKS 95i and it improved the tail a lot.

Mark did you change ylu servo before going Kbar

[helimadness]

Marks did you change ylu servo before going Kbar

Yep the tail servo was one of the first things I change in the chase to rid the wag. Also went the 37mm bat wings and moved the horn in as close as I could get on the servo arm.
Changing to the 95i servo let me up the gain a lot. Tail was either drifting or wagging. Changing the servo got the gain high enough the tail would hold at low to mid head speeds. Changing from 3GX to Kbar got rid of the wag at high head speeds.

Im going to try the 40mm tails again now I have the wag gone at higher speeds. The tail at the mo is maybe a little slow and has a small bounce on fast CCW stops. Will be interesting to see the difference with the bigger blades.

About to go on 3 weeks holiday with the 250 so hopefully plenty of time to play.

[tourerjim]

Yep the tail servo was one of the first things I change in the chase to rid the wag. Also went the 37mm at wings and moved the horn in as close as I could get on the servo arm.
Changing to the 95i servo let me up the gain a lot. Tail was either drifting or wagging. Changing the servo got the gain high enough the tail would hold at low to mid head speeds. Changing from 3GX to Kbar got rid of the wag at high head speeds.

Im going to try the 40mm tails again now I have the wag gone at higher speeds. The tail at the mo is maybe a little slow and has a small bounce on fast CCW stops. Will be interesting to see the difference with the bigger blades.

About to go on 3 weeks holiday with the 250 so hopefully plenty of time to play.

With ds520 on tail it seems to have solved the blowout but just as you've explained my tail has same behavior, thing is now my 450 has never been happy since going v3+, v4 feels more like how v2 + was but more refinely tuned & fewer parameters so all the excesive cyclic & tail controls have been sorted so now cyclic & tail are near perfect even without using parameters, im going to fit 3gx back on tomorrow just to prove to myself its not mechanical.

[DarkSoul666]

If you want to sell your fubar....just let me know... ;-)
I will get an 3gx today fpr my 450....but i would use the fubar or kbar....but it takes so long until they arrive.

greetings
Sebastian

[tourerjim]

Well.??? She's all Align again now 3gx is now on v4 & tail feels perfect without using any parameters, only done circuits until I can get out once weather is little better, tail feels nice with no experience of tail blow out so its staying 3gx

[tourerjim]

If you want to sell your fubar....just let me know... ;-)
I will get an 3gx today fpr my 450....but i would use the fubar or kbar....but it takes so long until they arrive.

greetings
Sebastian

Sorry mate but for what it cost me I may as well just keep it, also the good thing about the FuBar its good for fault finding which you dont get with 3gx.?

[helimadness]

Sorry mate but for what it cost me I may as well just keep it, also the good thing about the FuBar its good for fault finding which you dont get with 3gx.?

Maybe you should try the Fubar on the 500 or something bigger. 250's seems to be a little temperamental at the best of times to get flying right.
The 3GX was a totally different feel. Not sure of good or bad but certainly different.
As far as the interface and setup goes Vbar / Fubar / Kbar wins hands down in my book.

[tourerjim]

Maybe you should try the Fubar on the 500 or something bigger. 250's seems to be a little temperamental at the best of times to get flying right.
The 3GX was a totally different feel. Not sure of good or bad but certainly different.
As far as the interface and setup goes Vbar / Fubar / Kbar wins hands down in my book.

Think my problem were understanding all the parameters" different language compared with 3gx however that's not a bad idea trying on the 500 i might give that a go.
Mark don't you sleep you seem to be on here all hours day & night is that because your daughter still wakes you up of a night to remind you to check heliaddicts...............haha

[helimadness]

Think my problem were understanding all the parameters" different language compared with 3gx however that's not a bad idea trying on the 500 i might give that a go.
Mark don't you sleep you seem to be on here all hours day & night is that because your daughter still wakes you up of a night to remind you to check heliaddicts...............haha

Na just addicted to heli still, or being slack at work :-) guess one of those is a good thing.

For sure the *bar setup is a totally different way of thinking. Being able to do it totally on the PC I find way easier.
The interesting difference I find is the *bar does a lot in the software where as the 3GX relies on the TX for some of it. For instance the servo centering you do in the *bar software where as 3GX you use trims on the TX. Same with cyclic and collective travel .
Not sure which way is better but for me makes more sense if the software knows all that is going on. There was drift issues with 3GX for a while, I had it as well on my 500. One of the possible causes was using to much sub trim. I just think having all the adjustments done in the software opposed to half on the TX and half in the software has to make it easier for the FBL controller to know what is going on and to be able to manage all the adjustments.

Maybe all totally irreverent but the whole *bar setup just seems a lot more logical to me and so much easier.

Everyone is different but and every one gets used to there own tools.

[tourerjim]

Na just addicted to heli still, or being slack at work :-) guess one of those is a good thing.

For sure the *bar setup is a totally different way of thinking. Being able to do it totally on the PC I find way easier.
The interesting difference I find is the *bar does a lot in the software where as the 3GX relies on the TX for some of it. For instance the servo centering you do in the *bar software where as 3GX you use trims on the TX. Same with cyclic and collective travel .
Not sure which way is better but for me makes more sense if the software knows all that is going on. There was drift issues with 3GX for a while, I had it as well on my 500. One of the possible causes was using to much sub trim. I just think having all the adjustments done in the software opposed to half on the TX and half in the software has to make it easier for the FBL controller to know what is going on and to be able to manage all the adjustments.

Maybe all totally irreverent but the whole *bar setup just seems a lot more logical to me and so much easier.

Everyone is different but and every one gets used to there own tools.

Completely understand all what your saying Mark & to me it makes perfect sense but for me having been around the life of 3G/GX is really hard to adjust to the FuBar/Vbar even the Beastx's I ended up selling on.

[tourerjim]

Done another lipo earlier & without doubt 3GX it defo my style of flying but was put of with 3.1 so got my confidence back now.

[tourerjim]

I've now swap the 520 back to the 425 tail servo that i originaly had on there & tail is nothing like when I had the FuBar on there, just come back from doing few good test & so far only parameters i've needed to adjust is aile/elev travel limits down 40%

[helimadness]

I've now swap the 520 back to the 425 tail servo that i originaly had on there & tail is nothing like when I had the FuBar on there, just come back from doing few good test & so far only parameters i've needed to adjust is aile/elev travel limits down 40%

So is the tail better or worse with that servo?
With the 3gx and Ver 3.1 I had no end of trouble with tail wag. MKS95i servo made the biggest difference, 37mm bat wing blades and moving the ball in on the horn as close as I could all helped as well. Anything over 95% on my at the time 3400 kv motor and it wagged like a bugger. Changed to the Kbar and perfect.

Interesting you might have had the total opposite experience.

Nothing is a given in this hobby that is for sure.

Mine is maybe a bit of a frankinheli now as started out as Copterx250 then got align DFC head tail and blade upgrades. Now align motor and ESC so just about all Align but SE for belt drive. I guess a major difference there.

Cheers

[tourerjim]

3.1 was complete shite with the 250 tail & wasn't much better on my other heli's & apart from the 250 the others went back to 2.1, 250 I fitted the Fubar & couldn't believe it when tail was just as bad & trying to understand the different controller language made it so hard to get my head around it all, wasn't so much that i gave up with the Fubar i just needed to be sure it wasn't mechanical & when i proved that with v4 the next thing i needed to check was the stock tail servo which ment fitting back on & surprised me to find its holds perfect, i've only managed 6 lipo's of mild 3D stuff with no blow outs, at the moment i really could do with finding bit of time to get to me flying club to do last bit of fine tuning.