Newbie, can't decide which way to go.

[Reaver]

Hi everyone, I'm looking for a bit of advice if you can spare the time to offer me some of your knowledge.

I'm after an Align 450 but I'm not sure if to get a sport super combo with all the parts or if to get the barebones kit and add my choice of servos and from what I've managed to research, the GY401. Would it be better for a novice like me who has never built a heli kit before to go for the super combo or is it simple enough to just add your own servo choice and have better components? I've looked at the used 450's on ebay but as I'm bound to crash at some point, I'd like to have the experience of knowing how it all goes together so it'll be easier to strip it down to replace parts.

I've only been flying for a month but have gone from a micro 3 channel, to a 4 channel and can hover fairly well but would love to have a quality heli and have decided on the 450. My pheonix sim is on it's way so I can have plenty of practice :-)

Can someone offer their advice on which way would be better for me to get a 450? Is it worth adding my own parts or are the ones in the kit good enough? Any extra tools I'll need for the build?

Thank you

[murph]

Hi Reaver, welcome to the forum. Not sure of the quality of the servos in the 450 super combo (I know the 500 super combo servos are ok however, as are the 600 size servos), have heard the 450 ones strip easily, though I don't know from first hand.
I built my own 450 using my choice of servos, etc but it can be time consuming and costly if you go for higher end kit. The good thing about the super combos is that you get everything so just build, add rx and battery and away you go. If I was in your shoes for now I would probably go with the super combo (despite what I have said) as you will crash anyway and costs could be minimised by going for the cheaper servos for now. Good luck with the kit and build, feel free to fire as many questions as you like, however daft you think it might be, someone will have asked it before and someoen will be able to help.

[matt t]

the combo would be ok as your hovering you do not need the top end stuff it will be fine

[amh]

I started off with the 450 sport super combo and I think it is a great choice for a beginner.

I have never had issues with the GP780 gyro and the tail servo, although I did replace mine with a 520 after a crash, although it is not essential.

There have also been many bad reports on the DS410M servos in the kit and I would be one of those bad reports, but I have subsequently read from someone on here that if you over tighten the screw in the servo's then this can cause issues, and thinking back on my build that definately could have been to blame in my case. There are also many people on here who have used DS410M servos for a long time and probably a few crashes also with no issue whatsoever.

I would strongly agree with murph and would say go with the super combo and enjoy the build mate. If you go for the sport then there are a few build vids I can point you in the direction of.

[Reaver]

Brilliant, thank you for everyone's help and the warm welcome. I've chosen to go with the Sport as I've read it's easier for a beginner to replace parts on as the pro is harder to work on compared so if you could give me some links to some of those build videos you mentioned amh, I'd be very grateful. I have a few questions if you could help again so I can set myself up.

Are there any extra tools I'd need besides the usual allen keys and screwdrivers? I've ordered a pitch guage for the main blades, is there anything else I'd need to set it up after the build?

Also, I may aswell go with a decent transmitter as it can be used for all future helis so I'm thinking of going for the Spektrum dx8 and an AR8000 receiver. I'm happy going with the dx8 even though it's expensive as it won't get damaged in a crash but is the AR8000 worth getting now or is it known to get damaged? When i'm more competant, I know I'd love to be adding more things to it like lights and maybe a fuselage further down the line but do you think it's a waste of money in the early stages?

[challis349]

I used these videos to help me build the sport, they worked really well for me

SEE HERE

[unleashed666]

vids on helifreak: Heli Skills and Setup 101 - LOOK here first! - HeliFreak for nearly everything - you need to be a member tho to watch them but signup is free

build vids for 450 sport can be found on youtube and i think other places, just google for them.

get a dx7 to begin with, second hand around 100 quid and will last you

[Darwil]

I wouldn't go for a dx8 if I were you, have a look at some of the forum posts about them - you might be able to pick up a real bargain though, cos most who've got them on here want to get rid. A sensible option at your stage would be a dx6i, costs a lot less, works with Phoenix and any Eflite or Parkzone bnf models - 6 channels are enough until you get into scale or nitro.
I looked at the Trex 450, but in the end got a Phoenixtech TT325/360 because it costs about the same and is a better heli - have a look on the forum about them and importantly their Customer support.
Hope this helps,
Best wishes and safe flying
D

[Reaver]

OK, I bought myself a used Align Trex 450 Pro and paired it up with an AR7000 Rx nd DX7 Tx. Finally setup the servos so they do as they should and she hovers quite nicely. These are definitely harder to control than my previous cheaper models but I can tell it's a good thing as these are more responsive. I have a question though if someone could help.

The servo which does the tail rotor doesn't seem to travel properly. What I mean is the other servos (3x DS410M) controlling the head, when set at 90 degrees have the same amount of movement both ways from the preset 90 degree position. The tail servo only moves a little one way but travels a fair bit further in the opposite direction past the 90 degree preset. Is that right or is my servo on it's way out?

Apart from that, she's a beauty :-)

[CookieMan]

The tail servo only moves a little one way but travels a fair bit further in the opposite direction past the 90 degree preset. Is that right or is my servo on it's way out?

1) Does this happen in both rate and heading hold mode?

2) Take the linkage rod out of your servo and see if she moves the same way as you've described.

3) What gyro are you using? Make sure (double check) the servo horn is centred correctly and then set your limits AGAIN.

This sometimes happen when the tail servo limits are not set up correctly. Make sure there is no binding on either sides.

[Balders]

one trick is temporarily remove the gyro out of the circuit (ie plug the servo directly in to the transmitter. That way with the stick centered, the servo will be at center (assuming no sub-trim or trim set on your Tx). You can then set your horn up to be 90 degrees to the servo, put the gyro back inline in the Rx, and you can setup that way.

The thing to be careful of is end-points and travel on your Tx too, these things can all affect the amount of "throw" either way. Finally, bear in mind that once your gyro is inline to your servo, it won't do what you may be expecting it to, as the gyro is always expecting it's own commands to have an effect, in other words, if you give a small bit of right stick in heading hold mode, and the heli is sat on the floor, not running, the gyro will keep feeding in input, thinking "that's odd, the heli should have turned by now, I better feed in some more!"

[Reaver]

Thank you for both of your replies. The gyro i'm using is an Align GP750 and if I disconnect it and just connect the tail servo straight to the Rx the servo works perfectly so it's the gyro that's giving me grief.

Cookieman: Regarding your first question about rate and heading mode, I'm not sure exactly what you mean but the gyro is connected to my Rx with 2 connection and flicking the "Gear" switch on my DX7 turns the status light on the gyro red or green and the problem remains on both. I'm new to these more expensive helis and have no experience with gyros so i'm kind of confused by it. I've downloaded a manual for the gyro but it's all codes to me.

Can anyone offer some advice to get me sorted? Is it as simple as setting the servo arm central with the power to the gyro or am I doing it right by setting the servo arm to 90 degrees without power as I did with the servos for the head?

[Balders]

You probably need to do a bit of research into heading hold and "rate" mode, but briefly, you will be using heading hold pretty much exclusively. This means that the gyro will always try to keep the heli pointing (as in nose pointing) the same direction, regardless of outside (ie the wind) influences. This also means that flying in straight line, the tail will stay pointing consistently the same way, it will NOT follow the heli like a weather vane. That is what rate mode is, and is really only used for scale stuff, realistically.

What it means is that you have to "fly" the tail, when tearing through the sky. So if you bank left, you not only have to give it cyclic, you have to "swing" the tail round to point the nose in the direction you want it, unless you want the heli to be flying through the sky sideways.

[Spanner]

Take a loko here Trex 450 Pro build videos - HeliFreak

You may have to register to watch the videos though, the GP750 setup vids are halfway down first post.

and the rest of the setup vids, loads to keep you going!
Heli Skills and Setup 101 - LOOK here first! - HeliFreak

[Reaver]

Thank you, from your brief description Balders, I can understand the heading hold and rate mode and yes, it was on both and heading hold is what I'll be using :-)

Thanks to the video links that Spanner gave me, I have sorted the problem by setting the servo movement limitations via my Tx for the rudder so that's all sorted now. In Heading mode though, should the rudder be slowly coming all the way to one side when the heli isn't moving? I presume it's right as I guess the gyro is compensating as the heli isn't turning with the gyro. Am I right or wrong or does it need setting up better?

Thank you for everyones help, it's hard being a newbie as all this is new to me and researching the internet ends up being confusing sometimes as people use the proper terminology for things like when I first saw Tx nd Rx, I had no idea what they was talking about but I'm learning.

So does my gyro sound ok wandering to one side when stationary or does it sound wrong? I can't get her up in the air yet as my main shaft is slightly bent so needs replacing.