Ccpm Interaction?

[AndersUK]

Tweaking ATVs only allows for top and bottom adjustment and this does not guarantee a linear correction at both ends between the centre and end points nor does it guarantee the elimination of other interaction.

By virtue of servo movement of CCPM, resolution is lost and the Cyclock restores this. However, I think you are missing my point. I am merely disagreeing with your comment that the "Cyclock will not solve the problem". I make no apologies because that is rubbish and is like saying that a gyro will not eliminate unwanted yaw?

The adjustment capability of Cyclock is far greater than that of any TX and sometimes a perfect mechanical setup and ATV adjustment is not always enough for the more discerning flyer. Up until now the "perfect" mechanical setup and ATV adjustment has been satisfactory and will continue to be for most - it appears that many are happy with this and is recommended if you prefer to keep it simple. However, and unless the the mechanical seup is poor, the Cyclock will enable full elimination of interaction. It just does a similar job but better.

[mchristyuk]

Anders,

Yes my statement that it won't solve the problem could have been worded much better.

What I was trying to get at is that it will cover up the effect of mismatched servos.. but it won't fix a mismatched servo.. the only way to do that is to replace the servo. The same goes with adjusting the ATV's.. its better to get matched servos in the first place.. but sometimes you just have to play with the hand your dealt.

As for the resolution issue.. If your transmitter is only sending out 500bit resolution out of its possible 1024 or 2048 then you can try to restore as much as you want post processing but its a cr@ppy way of going about things.. it would be better to send out the full 1024 bit in the first place!.. Prevention is better than cure as it were...

Also the Cyclock can upsample the data as much as it wants.. but it can't replace something that wasn't there in the first place. For example if a setup means the transmitter is only sending 500bits of data out then 1bit is about 0.13 degrees of movement on the servo. The transmitter is requesting that the receiver move the servo by 0.13 degrees.. now this gets fed on to the Cyclock which can reinterpret that into 4800 bits of data.. but erm.. it still gives the same command to the servo.. of 0.13 degrees... How is the Cyclock going to know you really wanted 0.11 degrees? It can only work off what it gets fed from the receiver..

Hmm.. how else can I explain this a bit better.. its like in the movies when they enhance a really blurry picture to be crystal clear.. impossible.. you can't replace something that wasn't there in the first place. They can increase the resolution of the picture as much as they want.. but they'll just have more bits of data showing the same blur.. the picture isn't any more accurate.. just represented by more data..

Now if you're using it on a virtual flybar system with gyros in a feedback setup then yes you're going to get better accuracy at the servos because the commands are coming from the gyro at a very high resolution rather than the low resolution from your transmitter/receiver setup.

The Cyclock is a good product for people with older PCM systems that suffer latency issues, and it also comes into play with the virtual flybar setups.. Don't get me wrong.. I'm not bashing it and I am great admirer or Colin Mill's brains.

However somebody running something like a DX7 with good quality servos should not need it at all to get a machine that flies just as well as one fitted with a Cyclock.

All that is needed is a bit of care and patience when setting these things up.. and far too many people are using electronic aids to cover up earlier "wrongs".

Cheers

Mark

[ChrisB]

Again,both points are really helpful,i see the benefits of the Cyclock but i feel my DX7 can handle the task..

To add to Marks comment,depending on how it flies today i may replace the offending 6965 with another new one i have that was destined to be in charge of pitch on my Raptor 50 thats soon to fly,the offending one from the N Pro can take its place on the Raptor but i may find that this new servo is still mismatched from the older two still on the N pro...

I will fly it and if i feel its OK then i will leave it,

Thanks again,and stop fighting

[ChrisB]

Well the Pro still didnt fly correctly,the adjustments seemed to improve the roll off but it introduced other issues and felt wrong

Gonna do some serious head scratching and its obvious that the servos are the issue,may replace one or all of them

But firstly i need a 401 and AR7000 to complete my Raptor so i am planning to rob them from the Pro and ground it for now,i can put a Spartan 760 and some 9252`s on my Crimbo list

I am wondering whether a servo is playing up when under load as on the ground it appears Ok

[Smoothound]

I am wondering whether a servo is playing up when under load as on the ground it appears Ok

That sounds like a pretty good shout Chris.

My 450 and 600 both fly fine with slightly mismatched end points on the ATV's to get the collective perfect

[mchristyuk]

Chris,

Does sound like you might have a servo on its way out.. might its way of telling you that now is a good time to ground the machine

Cheers

Mrk

[ChrisB]

Set of 9252`s on order from Phil Henderson for her

[pchristy]

One other thing to check - you *have* turned the expo function on in the swashplate mix menu, haven't you?

This is intended to correct for the non-linearity issues created by using a rotary servo output when you really need a linear one. And it does a pretty fair job of it!

Its one of those silly little settings that's easily overlooked, but it can make a world of difference to the way a model handles......

Of course, if you really have got a servo on the way out, it won't help, but it may just be your problem. Certainly worth checking, anyway!

--
Pete

[Ashley Davis]

Also the Cyclock can upsample the data as much as it wants.. but it can't replace something that wasn't there in the first place. For example if a setup means the transmitter is only sending 500bits of data out then 1bit is about 0.13 degrees of movement on the servo. The transmitter is requesting that the receiver move the servo by 0.13 degrees.. now this gets fed on to the Cyclock which can reinterpret that into 4800 bits of data.. but erm.. it still gives the same command to the servo.. of 0.13 degrees... How is the Cyclock going to know you really wanted 0.11 degrees? It can only work off what it gets fed from the receiver..

Mark, suggest you go to the CSM site, download the Cyclock manual and actually read it. Then come back and talk some sense as you clearly don't understand how the cyclock works at all.

With a transmitter the resolution is inmixed reducing the resolution of the set, ie. your swash mix is 60%, your ATVs are normally 100% rather than 150%. So the tx only transmits at around 800 points of the possible 2048 (on a DX7) that you started with. The calculation is in the review referenced earlier.

The cyclock allows the tx to transmit the servo resolution at full resolution as you don't use CCPM swash mix (the DX7 is run in normal mode not CCPM) and you set all of your ATVs to 150% right at the start. So the tx sends the full 2048 points of resolution and then the cyclock mixes it internally and passes on that resolution to the servos. So the rx actually sees 2048 points of data per servo....there is no upmixing or trying to replace data that wasn't there is the first place.

Also the cyclock allows you to adjust your ATVs at low stick, mid stick and high stick. So essentially you have more points of adjustment to remove unwanted interaction. I've done countless CCPM setups on multiple machines and you can get it more accurate with the cyclock everytime. Added to this you can then introduce electronic phase correction AND it runs a virtual cyclic ring for you so when you put a stick in the corner it won't bind or lockup the servos.

Will it fix a dodgy servo, probably not, but who says there's a dodgy servo here? To me it just sounds like a bunch of servos that don't center or travel quite the same (like most servos) and just needs a bit of help. The choices are mess around for hours on end trying to make the DX7 sort it out or buy a specialist tool for the job like the cyclock.

One way is cheaper than the other, how about we all throw away our heading hold gyros as you can set it up on a revo mix right?

[Ashley Davis]

Set of 9252`s on order from Phil Henderson for her

Nice one, what could have been resolved for £50 is resolved for £150. Let's all go buy new servos till we find three that match

[Smoothound]

Ash, being a lazy git, infinitely curious and always up for an easy life How much buggering about does it take to setup the Cyclock on your average machine?

[Smoothound]

Nice one, what could have been resolved for £50 is resolved for £150. Let's all go buy new servos till we find three that match

That's true but they are far better servos than poxy Hitecs aren't they so he's on a winner straight away

<Phil ducks and runs for cover >

[Ashley Davis]

well there is that

cyclock makes CCPM setup very logical to follow instead of being a nightmare of rod twiddling and ATV twiddling only to see your swashplate wobble all over the place 4 hours later.

[Smoothound]

Cool

Well not so cool, as usual you are encouraging me to spend money my bank manager doesn't want me to spend

[mak24seven]

well there is that

cyclock makes CCPM setup very logical to follow instead of being a nightmare of rod twiddling and ATV twiddling only to see your swashplate wobble all over the place 4 hours later.

facinating post, are u saying that u could actually have an uneven swash and the cyclock would even it out all the way through the range? i find the full posative and full negative interaction on my heli's ok but the swash tends to wobble through the range, i suppose u could get rid of that with p mix,s but god help u lol i hope they dont bring out any more gizmo's for these heli's becaus for one i'm running out of cash and 2 i've not got any room left in the heli to fit them, mine looks like a flying bomb as it is with the canopy off lol.