Collective Management

[t-rex pedro]

My 600n with 50 Hyper, MP5, Carbsmart, Magnum 30%, 12+/- pitch and 2100 HS seems to bog/lose power especially in long vertical climb outs. Am I loading the head too much with this pitch range?

Is this down to what I understand collective management to be as with some new manouvers I'm trying I can also bog the head (tight flips and messy rainbows). Obviously its something I need to learn but just wondered if any 3D hotshots out there have any advice?

[Arky]

hi m8

you should be able to do a full pitch climbout on 30% 12 degrees and a hyper with very little headspeed drop and it should hold this all the way up not bog down

jason

[t-rex pedro]

hi m8

you should be able to do a full pitch climbout on 30% 12 degrees and a hyper with very little headspeed drop and it should hold this all the way up not bog down

jason

Thats what I thought mate but it seemed like it was leaning out and losing headspeed. Aidi was with me and noticed it too. Didnt scream to the heavens like I'd expect.

[moyesboy]

Full pitch climbout on my 600n hardly drops the head speed, on 20% magnum and maniac 603.

Some blades will load the head more, and may work better with less pitch.
for example on my 450 with align night blades I can really bog it easily, but swapping the blades to radix it will hardly bog at all.

I imagine the same can be true with 600 blades...I had some BBT evolution on my raptor that really loaded up the head with cylic, but not collective.

[t-rex pedro]

Full pitch climbout on my 600n hardly drops the head speed, on 20% magnum and maniac 603.

Some blades will load the head more, and may work better with less pitch.
for example on my 450 with align night blades I can really bog it easily, but swapping the blades to radix it will hardly bog at all.

I imagine the same can be true with 600 blades...I had some BBT evolution on my raptor that really loaded up the head with cylic, but not collective.

I'm using a new set of Radix stickbangers. Totally unnecesarry I know but I've just blinged this one up!

Def bogs though. I can here the pitch/tone of the engine change.

[barney]

Could be a few things.

The Maniacs although fast and precise do tend to show up any motor shortcomings. The symptom you describe is a possible sign the motor is requiring a new rear bearing as the power drops away long before it starts to sound bad..

The least draggy 600 blade I've used is the Radix by a fair margin..and holds the highest overall Pitch without bogging

It could also be your throttle servo on its way out or lagging especially if you have very quick cyclic servos Poorly set Governer etc etc..

but my guess is its the first on the list, Its amazing what a difference a fresh bearing can make

hope that helps you out Brian

[moonmanflyer]

what temp setting on the carb smart? you could be running it to rich.
Also try upping the head speed to about 2200, the hyper loves singing right at the top, i found mine use to bog a bit at 2100. My super pro does not bog at all, even on real hard punch outs.

[t-rex pedro]

It could also be your throttle servo on its way out or lagging especially if you have very quick cyclic servos Poorly set Governer etc etc..

but my guess is its the first on the list, Its amazing what a difference a fresh bearing can make

hope that helps you out Brian

Thanks Brian

I have 8915's on the cyclic and a fresh 3152 on the throttle with a GV-1 governor.

Maybe it is the bearing set. Might throw a new piston/ring in whilst I'm at it but before I tear it down I think I'll take it to my club field (DMHC) and get the opinion of a few with a good ear for engines !!!

[t-rex pedro]

what temp setting on the carb smart? you could be running it to rich.
Also try upping the head speed to about 2200, the hyper loves singing right at the top, i found mine use to bog a bit at 2100. My super pro does not bog at all, even on real hard punch outs.

Ive tried 110 and 120 degrees James, with the servo bang in the middle when up to temp. Bogs at both settings. Also, my gov will only run 2100 max (GV-1). I would have thought it would climb like a scalded cat at 2100 and keep going. It goes well to start with then kind of tails off. I've been trying new things and getting a little more confident but I'm sure it used to be better that this! It really bogs down in big loops too. To the point I'm worried its gonna cut!

[moonmanflyer]

Ive tried 110 and 120 degrees James, with the servo bang in the middle when up to temp. Bogs at both settings. Also, my gov will only run 2100 max (GV-1). I would have thought it would climb like a scalded cat at 2100 and keep going. It goes well to start with then kind of tails off. I've been trying new things and getting a little more confident but I'm sure it used to be better that this! It really bogs down in big loops too. To the point I'm worried its gonna cut!

Fit an align govener, then you can up the head speed, even though there are some on here that don't like them i am and Adiesmith very impressed with it, allows the higher revs and the os pulls like a train, you will see it possibly this weekend as i might be coming for a guest visit on sunday.

[moyesboy]

I am also impressed with the align governor on my 600n.
Ive had to fiddle a lot with my revlock 20 to get it anything like as good on my knight, and the align governor is only driving a sloppy old sanwa 102 analogue servo while the revlock has a JR digital.

[richieclarkie]

Weird isn't it because the only time I've had probs with my revlocks is when my engines have been playing up. Once the sensor on my 600 was fitted with the synergy bracket it never played up. I use 3152s on the throttle although I've had a couple fail they have worked really well.

From what I can see the Align govnor seems to allow overspeed a bit too easily, but then again I've not run one myself so it would be unfair dismiss it.

[machasm]

Just got rid of my Align Gov as it kept dropping off the revs erratically.
Got a RV10 now and seems to be much more stable.
just got to get this silly carbsmart sensor again!
Adrian.

[steelie600]

sounds strange, my x-treme has got a hyper, 600mm radix s/bs and no gove just a well fiddled with pitch curve with mixes. i run it at 2200 rpm and it never bogs well not badly anyway and thats up to 14 degrees pitch. id say there may be an issue with your bearings as said previously also chech your bearings on the heli as if any of these has gone and is binding up at full pitch that wont help matters. had the thrust bearings go on my trex and caused a similar outcome but since then it pulls like a bastid.

[t-rex pedro]

Well, had a couple of tanks through it tonight. Tried Carbsmart temp at 100 and 110 degrees with 100 coming out on top. Pulls much harder in vertical climbs. I think it may have been running a bit hot therefore lean at 120 degrees. Cant wait to get down to DMHC again for a second opinion. Hopefully this week. With regards to the governor I bought the GV-1 whilst I was flying alone and didnt have the benefit of this forum or DMHC to shout NOOOOO!!!! It will do for now as I'm really only just getting into this but want to know that my heli is delivering max performance!! (even if i'm not giving it max beans!!)