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**Mslater** · 09-11-2012, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by Keratos View Post

1. Why do i have to set swash type to 1x90 degrees (the actual swash is 3 at 120 degrees) so is this sim heli not going to be unrepresentative of my real heli
2. When i try to hover (which occurs just below 2100 RPM) the sim heli rolls/drifts to the left, tail turns left , and heli speeds off to the left - i loose control
3. How to simulate my Align FL760 FBL gyro on channel 5 ?
4. The sim heli drifts small amount to left, I correct to right, sim heli sweeps to right, I correct to left, off it goes way off to left, I correct to right, it comes shooting across the screen - arggh

thanks

1. On your model the TX is required to do the mixing of channels, Phoenix does this for you, it only needs to know which stick is moving (ail or Elev). It does it this way because phoenix has many types of model and will adjust the mix as required without you needing to change anything in the TX. For example any of the planes will fly with you heli settings.

2. The heli will drift left, that's a natural effect of the torque against the tail rotor. The tail turn indicates that you don't have the calibration correct or your TX is not centering correctly. Try re-calibrating the TX in phoenix and make sure you have no trims set and the sticks are at centre when you click ok in that screen.

3. I don't thinks there's a way to do it in the TX but you can modify the model (pick one of the 3G helis and start from there)

4. Sounds normal for a beginner, keep trying - you're holding in the correction for to long and over compensating. This could also be the problem with your tail turn in (2) above, possibly add some more expo to the tail for a while to iron out any inadvertent tail inputs.

**royotr** · 09-11-2012, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by Mslater View Post

1. On your model the TX is required to do the mixing of channels, Phoenix does this for you, it only needs to know which stick is moving (ail or Elev). It does it this way because phoenix has many types of model and will adjust the mix as required without you needing to change anything in the TX. For example any of the planes will fly with you heli settings.

2. The heli will drift left, that's a natural effect of the torque against the tail rotor. The tail turn indicates that you don't have the calibration correct or your TX is not centering correctly. Try re-calibrating the TX in phoenix and make sure you have no trims set and the sticks are at centre when you click ok in that screen.

3. I don't thinks there's a way to do it in the TX but you can modify the model (pick one of the 3G helis and start from there)

4. Sounds normal for a beginner, keep trying - you're holding in the correction for to long and over compensating. This could also be the problem with your tail turn in (2) above, possibly add some more expo to the tail for a while to iron out any inadvertent tail inputs.

Great explanations to Keratos's queries. Pheonix is a great sim for a mear £80 some of the "models" both helis and plane fly just like the real models. I wish I could get my engines to run as well as the sim, or should I be asking "why isn't there an interface with a weather app. that changes the sim models behaviour because of change in humidity, temperature and light conditions? " Imagine a sim where the engine harden off in flight because its hot and low humidity in the real world. If you were to ignore the signs on the sim , you ended up with a dead engine , enforced auto or crash and Pheonix wouldn't allow you to continue until you visited a cyber shop and bought a new engine!

The other day I flew a Trex 700 e FBL on pheonix. If the real thing flys exactly like the Pheonix version, I want one!! Other than my MCPX I haven't yet flown a FBL in real life.

**PKNEC** · 09-11-2012, 08:57 AM

Another tip to help tame the heli while you are learning:
once you have selected your model go into the edit function and a pic of your chosen heli will appear choose the basic button on the bottom, once pressed you should see a dial in the centre that has beginner lower left, intermediate top centre, now place your cursor on the dial press and hold the left mouse button and drag the arrow towards the beginner the further round you go the less responsive the heli will be on the sim.
If you go below the beginner it will actually add training gear.
Once you become more confident start to increase the dial back towards intermediate and beyond.

**royotr** · 09-11-2012, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Keratos View Post

What i dont understand is:

1. Why do i have to set swash type to 1x90 degrees (the actual swash is 3 at 120 degrees) so is this sim heli not going to be unrepresentative of my real heli
2. When i try to hover (which occurs just below 2100 RPM) the sim heli rolls/drifts to the left, tail turns left , and heli speeds off to the left - i loose control
3. How to simulate my Align FL760 FBL gyro on channel 5 ?
4. The sim heli drifts small amount to left, I correct to right, sim heli sweeps to right, I correct to left, off it goes way off to left, I correct to right, it comes shooting across the screen - arggh

thanks

Point 4 some people don't get on with expo and as a result end up with PIO , pilot induced oscillations. The flatter centre stick response when using expo obviously means you have to move the stick more to correct , then they put in a marginally too big of a movement and the stick is in the steeper responsive part of the exponential curve. Over reaction of the heli occurs requiring more correction resulting in yet more over correction and so on, eventually out of control and crash.
Have you the right kind of expo? On Jr and Spektrum you put in +ve expo to flatten the response curve, on Futaba I believe (and possibly others ) you have to put in -ve expo to flatten the curve.

Point 2. You refer to the tail turn to the left , does this mean that you are flying the tail rather than controlling the yaw of the heli. This is another beginner error , I've come across people who are self taught start of by controlling the tail because it is closest to them . Some even reverse the rudder control so when the tail goes left they move the rudder control to the right to correct. I met one such person who , once this was pointed out , declined to change to the correct direction of yaw control because he'd got used to it too much. Imagine test flying one of his helis! But like he pointed out , it is his heli and he'll worry about the reverse yaw response in forward flight when he gets to that stage.

**Keratos** · 09-11-2012, 08:28 PM

Great help. Thanks
I am getting better now, I was trying to control it like a radio controlled boat in the funfair !!
Its a heli I said to myself - duh .

Originally posted by Mslater View Post

1. On your model the TX is required to do the mixing of channels, Phoenix does this for you, it only needs to know which stick is moving (ail or Elev). It does it this way because phoenix has many types of model and will adjust the mix as required without you needing to change anything in the TX. For example any of the planes will fly with you heli settings.

2. The heli will drift left, that's a natural effect of the torque against the tail rotor. The tail turn indicates that you don't have the calibration correct or your TX is not centering correctly. Try re-calibrating the TX in phoenix and make sure you have no trims set and the sticks are at centre when you click ok in that screen.

3. I don't thinks there's a way to do it in the TX but you can modify the model (pick one of the 3G helis and start from there)

4. Sounds normal for a beginner, keep trying - you're holding in the correction for to long and over compensating. This could also be the problem with your tail turn in (2) above, possibly add some more expo to the tail for a while to iron out any inadvertent tail inputs.

**Keratos** · 09-11-2012, 08:38 PM

Hi;

Your point 4 comment is interesting. I have D/Rs on a switch for AIL and ELV. 0% at position 0 and 60% expo on position 2. Normally fly at position 2. But on position 1 its so super sensitive and I cant fly it. Yet. I am managing to hover nicely now.

Point 2, no, I'm controlling pitch roll and yaw with cyclic , not bothering much with the tail as every time I try to change the rudder, I inadvertently increase the throttle and it goes skyward or, it drills into the ground, but at -2deg pitch it lands without falling apart.

Its all fingers and thumbs at the mo, hover is okay-ish , but I guess its practice practice practice.

I've decided not to power up my Trex 600N until I can control - basically - this heli.That will be 2 months now the heli has been on a shelf in the garage. Ah well

thanks for your support

Not sure where to go now. Is there any way for people to hook up online and me join some training sessions?

Originally posted by royotr View Post

Point 4 some people don't get on with expo and as a result end up with PIO , pilot induced oscillations. The flatter centre stick response when using expo obviously means you have to move the stick more to correct , then they put in a marginally too big of a movement and the stick is in the steeper responsive part of the exponential curve. Over reaction of the heli occurs requiring more correction resulting in yet more over correction and so on, eventually out of control and crash.
Have you the right kind of expo? On Jr and Spektrum you put in +ve expo to flatten the response curve, on Futaba I believe (and possibly others ) you have to put in -ve expo to flatten the curve.

Point 2. You refer to the tail turn to the left , does this mean that you are flying the tail rather than controlling the yaw of the heli. This is another beginner error , I've come across people who are self taught start of by controlling the tail because it is closest to them . Some even reverse the rudder control so when the tail goes left they move the rudder control to the right to correct. I met one such person who , once this was pointed out , declined to change to the correct direction of yaw control because he'd got used to it too much. Imagine test flying one of his helis! But like he pointed out , it is his heli and he'll worry about the reverse yaw response in forward flight when he gets to that stage.

**Keratos** · 09-11-2012, 08:45 PM

one other thing.

the pitch range on the model is -12 to 12

yet in my Tx , to get -2 degrees pitch at zero throttle , i need to dial in +9%. The % range is -100 to +100. So if the min pitch is -12degrees then I presume this is -100% ? So why is -2degrees pitch require a +9% pitch setting, I would have imagined the figure would be around -16%

??

EDIT: got it. didnt realise the model has its own pitch curve. Set the min and max, and curve to 2.0. all a-ok

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dont understand Phoenix with my Tx

dont understand Phoenix with my Tx

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