How close to the real thing is Phoenix?

[Beans]

I've spent around 8 hours on the sim now and can very comfortably manage a fairly stable hover with medium wind and gusts set (with model facing away from me) and keep it under control enough not to crash while the heli is facing towards me. I've also managed a good number of circuits and bit of general ambling around without crashing. Can I now expect to be able to fly a real heli and not crash it whilst performing these same manoeuvres or will I need to 'convert' these skills to the real world? How accurately does Phoenix represent real flying conditions?

[gazza]

It's very accurate in my opinion & will become an invaluable training aid to you, teaching you the necessary hand-eye movement & co-ordination skills required.
Obviously the real thing may differ slightly depending on how you have your helicopter set up regarding pitch & throttle curves & correctly balanced etc...As the ones on Phoenix are balanced, tracked and set up spot on regarding CofG etc.

But yeah, minus the fear factor and trepidation when flying for real its pretty much spot on Oh & the Trex450SE is scarily accurate.

[SinxarKnights]

Hmm, what about RealFlight G3 (3.0) how does it stack up to the rest?

[gazza]

Never owned it myself but I've heard it's great for the multiplayer feature but the heli physics are off. Phoenix is currently the best out there

[Thomas]

It's nothing like the real thing, but the SIM does give you the coordination, reflex’s and teaches you stick movements, I've always thought sims were slightly harder to hover but easier in other areas too.

Learning moves on the SIM is easy but the main reason I don’t think it's that close is because there is no fear factor and you seldom brain lock on a SIM like you can at the field and this is what most of the learning is about.

... bit like F1 on a PlayStation, you can get a good lap time, but in a real F1 car you aint got a hope

I find one thing that makes it more real is to record flights which gives a little more pressure.

[Beans]

But being able to hover and do a circuit on a sim would mean you're not likely to crash when you take your first real heli into the air, right?

Part of my motivation for getting a sim first was to learn the basics for 'free' and not crash my heli lots learning the basics. If the model are accurate then it's also giving me a good idea which heli to buy.

I'm already starting to get a little bit bored of the Raptor 50 and love the response of some of the 3D machines. Would it be silly to dive in and get a more advanced heli before learning to fly a standard model for real?

[richieclarkie]

Phoenix works for me. I was hovering a knight sport unaided within a few minutes.(probably 4-5 hours of SIM time prior) I practice all my manouvres in the sim first and then do then down the field.

I think the 450 is easier to fly than the sim.

However, you do need to do it all again for real because there is no way a sim can prepare you for what a REAL heli actually feels like. How REAL wind, sun, cloud affects flying and perception of the heli. Also in the real world the bigger the heli the browner the pants , BUT the better they fly.

[Thomas]

But being able to hover and do a circuit on a sim would mean you're not likely to crash when you take your first real heli into the air, right?

err, it will help but if you take a real model up and try and fly it around straight away you will crash.

One thing I found when I was learning is that the model can get away from you, before you know it you have no idea which way it's pointing or which way up it is, the SIM can't prepare you for that.

The sim will help teach you but in order to learn you need to master one thing on the sim and then do it on the model, I was alway told not to get too far ahead on the sim (by Ade). When you start flying you;'ll see what I'm on about.

Go and play with all the sim models, gets very boring otherwise just when you are doing the seriouse stuff keep to the same one, doesn't matter which.

[moyesboy]

If you are bored of the "raptor50" I guess you mean the raptor 50 sport in phoenix.
Have you played with the raptor50 3D?
They are the same machine but the 3D has a few upgrades new main blades and changed pitch and throttle curves.

If you kit out a 50 machine with good servos and gyro and good engine then that same machine will take you from learning to 3D, unless the ground gets in the way too heavily!

Others might correct me, but its not all that likely that you will damage expensive servos beyond repair with a few training mishaps.

Fly the sim with autozoom switched off and you will see what he means by the model getting away from you. Once it is not close its easy to loose the orientation. Unlike a plank which is always travelling nose first which means you can usually work out its orientation quickly, the heli can go sideways or backwards so there are too many combinations to work out in the time it takes to find the ground. You need to keep track of what it is doing all the time so there is no doubt about its orientation!

[LipolyGone]

I've spent around 8 hours on the sim now and can very comfortably manage a fairly stable hover with medium wind and gusts set (with model facing away from me) and keep it under control enough not to crash while the heli is facing towards me. I've also managed a good number of circuits and bit of general ambling around without crashing. Can I now expect to be able to fly a real heli and not crash it whilst performing these same manoeuvres or will I need to 'convert' these skills to the real world? How accurately does Phoenix represent real flying conditions?

The problem with sims, & I've owned several from FMS & XTR to Phoenix is that there's no FEAR factor at all, so what if you crash the model it reapears imediately all fixed & shiney.
In real life it's obviousley not like that.
I went through a particularly hard time last time I tried to fly helis.
So much so I vowed never to get another one ever again
You see I came from a 15 year background of flying Planks & Gliders.
I learnt to hover in one weekend & had my training undercarriage off for the next, everything was going so well until I tried forwards flight which ended in my 1st crash the following month cost me £500 alone in crashes & repairs!
Please dont try to run before you can walk, I learnt that the hard way.

I would advise you to seek out a local person who does RC heli lessons, there are a few people on these forums who I'm sure could help you out a great deal, it will save you money in the long run.
Ive paid for two hours so far since returning to helis this year & am into figure of eight circuits allready.
I'm not going to take anything for granted this time because I know helis have a tendancy of biteing you in the ass when you dont expect it.
On the sim I can do a fairly passable 3D flight from inverted hovering to flips, backwards circuits etc but I know I couldnt do it yet on the real thing, so I will refrain from flying anything but short hovering hops & maybe lazy 8's to small circuits untill I know I'm ready & that might take me the rest of the year if I'm lucky

RCSlopes

[Ade_Law]

what about if phoenix disabled your computer for a few days and charged your credit card 100ukp everytime you crashed?

Ade

[SRH990]

Next we'll have a sim that won't start up until you enter your credit card details and asseses each crash, debiting your card with the cost of the repairs, this real enough

[MartinM]

I am with you on that Ade make for a good savings plan for a real crash !!!

No for the 'fear factor and trepidation' I was going to rig up an electric chair that give the sim pilot a good old jolt when the heli hits the ground !!

MrM

[Ade_Law]

actually thats a good idea... you could have a crash jar, evertime you crash you stick 5ukp in the jar.

the mrs gets the jar for her shoe budget

Ade

[Beans]

what about if phoenix disabled your computer for a few days and charged your credit card 100ukp everytime you crashed?

Ade

Well it runs on Windows so it's a possibility.