Hover training mode bug?

[ajenkins]

I get an annoying problem with hover training mode in Phoenix, and I wonder if other people see the same thing since I haven't seen anyone else complaining about this. The problem is that the helicopter seems to speed up a lot in hover training mode compared to how it behaves outside of hover training. To see the effect do the following:

* Choose the Trex 450 or Spark heli. The problem happens with other helis too, but it's more noticeable on the small helis.

* Hover it for a while and take note of how fast it responds to inputs, and how fast it accelerates if you tilt the heli one way or another.

* Now switch to hover training mode, and enable the pitch/roll control mode. Now note how fast the heli responds and accelerates. On my computer the heli is much faster now. To get the same feeling outside of hover training mode, I have to increase the simulation speed to about 125%.

I'm running Phoenix in Windows XP, on a MacBook Pro with 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU, 2 GB RAM and 256 MB video card. I have already filed a bug report with Phoenix about this, but just wanted to see if other people have experienced the same thing.

Adam

[Bug]

I dont have the sim, but maybe it does this to increase your reaction speed even more?

[Ashley Davis]

I'm planning to pay Phoenix a visit shortly. This is one of the things thats been on my list of things to talk with them about for quite some time

[AndersUK]

Adam

You have made a good point and I have noticed this too. It is considerably harder than in normal sim mode making it almost impossible for any novice to learn to hover. Maybe the designers could look at proving a series of skill levels from really easy (for getting used to the basic stick inputs) upto the level it is at now.

Andy

I get an annoying problem with hover training mode in Phoenix, and I wonder if other people see the same thing since I haven't seen anyone else complaining about this. The problem is that the helicopter seems to speed up a lot in hover training mode compared to how it behaves outside of hover training. To see the effect do the following:

* Choose the Trex 450 or Spark heli. The problem happens with other helis too, but it's more noticeable on the small helis.

* Hover it for a while and take note of how fast it responds to inputs, and how fast it accelerates if you tilt the heli one way or another.

* Now switch to hover training mode, and enable the pitch/roll control mode. Now note how fast the heli responds and accelerates. On my computer the heli is much faster now. To get the same feeling outside of hover training mode, I have to increase the simulation speed to about 125%.

I'm running Phoenix in Windows XP, on a MacBook Pro with 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU, 2 GB RAM and 256 MB video card. I have already filed a bug report with Phoenix about this, but just wanted to see if other people have experienced the same thing.

Adam

[Ashley Davis]

Go into the simulation menu, select setup. Now change the simulation speed to 65. Then go back to hover training and you should find it quite close to how the model behaves outside of hover training mode.

[ajenkins]

Glad to know it's not just happening on my computer.

To Bug and AndersUK: Maybe someone from Phoenix can confirm this, but I believe this isn't an intentional feature but rather a simple bug. The heli should behave the same in hover training mode except that the simulator handles some of the controls for you. If you want to speed everything up for practice, as Bug suggested, you can always do so by increasing the simulation speed in the system settings.

And I agree Andy, it's sped up enough to make the hover training mode not very useful. I can hover well enough now that I don't need the hover training mode, but when I let others try the simulator, it would be really nice if the hover training worked correctly. Also, when I move to learning inverted hovering I probably will want to use the hover training mode.

[ajenkins]

Thanks Ashley, I'll give that a try.

Adam

[Ade_Law]

whats happeneing is that when the computer controls the height whilst you play with other controls its holding the height very accurately. so when you roll the model slightly, it will try to fall, computer adds pitch to stop it falling but also makes it move sideways.

if you controlled the height as precisely as the sim it would also be that sensitive.

in someways making the hover harder is a good thing. slowing the sim speed down makes it easier.

Training modes are something that are going to be improved.

Ade

[ChrisB]

I like the Phoenix training mode as it is,,

I feel it is accurate as Ade says in the way the model would act


The ability to slow the simulation speed allows the user to tailor it to there own personal tastes


Sorry remind me,,what other sims do that?

[ajenkins]

Ade, Thanks for your explanation. I figured something like that was going on in the program.

While I agree that practicing in a way that's harder than reality may be useful, that certainly seems to be opposite of the purpose of hover training mode. If I just want to make things artificially hard, I can always increase the simulation speed and turn wind, gusts, and turbulence all the way up. The point of hover training mode seems to be to make things artificially easier than reality by having the simulator handle some of the controls, so that when I hand the controls to someone who's never flown a heli, they can get a feel for how hovering works quickly, without having to think of all 4 controls at once. With the current way Phoenix works, it's actually harder to hover using hover training than not using hover training, except in pitch-only mode. Ashley's suggestion to turn down the simulation speed is a reasonable workaround to make hover training mode useful.

[ajenkins]

I like the Phoenix training mode as it is,,

I feel it is accurate as Ade says in the way the model would act


The ability to slow the simulation speed allows the user to tailor it to there own personal tastes


Sorry remind me,,what other sims do that?

Do what? Do you mean have hover training modes, or allow the simulation speed to be changed? I believe all the major sims have hover training. I actually think RealFlight's hover training is better implemented. For one thing it lets you isolate any of the controls, instead of just the 3 choices Phoenix gives you. Not sure if other simulators let you change the simulation speed. I agree that's a nice feature.

And no, I'm not saying I think RealFlight is overall a better simulator, or I wouldn't have bought Phoenix. To me the better physics in Phoenix trumps most of the other features RealFlight has over Phoenix. In any case, I personally don't have much use for hover training anyway, so it's not a big deal to me. I think it's a little silly though to say that the way hover training currently works in Phoenix is correct, just because there's a plausible explanation for it. We can all like Phoenix without insisting that it's perfect.

[ChrisB]

No..Phoenix is Perfect im afraid,,,in my opinion

I had Realflite and it was utter pants compared even to XTR

[robgt]

I haven't used hover training on the Phoenix sim (or any other for that matter) in relation to heli's.
I have, however, used the torque training feature of phoenix in order to learn how to prop hang (which I picked up pretty rapidly )

The reason for my reply here...

For one thing it lets you isolate any of the controls, instead of just the 3 choices Phoenix gives you

This was something that I picked up on when using the torque training. Ideally, the sim should let you choose which controls you want to use, out of all of the available controls, and not restrict you to a few choices that the sim wants to offer you. I don't recall which set of controls I wanted to use, but I do remember that it wasn't an option for me.

That said, I did learn how to prop hang in under an hour, from not having a clue to having a Pitts Special in my face, tail dips to the floor etc

Cheers,
Rob

[robgt]

No..Phoenix is Perfect im afraid,,,in my opinion

LOL
It can't be... they keep releasing updates
I firmly believe it is the best sim on the market, and is constantly improving, which is great.
It's not perfect though - no software is

Cheers,
Rob

[ChrisB]

I know,i just like to tease