Getting the most from sim time?

[StuSmith]

BAM down goes the 1st hurdle!!! Why are you talking about chaos lol!

For any on lookers advice for chaos is as follows:

All angles upright and inverted,
Piro upright and inverted on the spot and in figure 8's,

Try to first master doing a piro flip into inverted, hold it there and then piro flip back into upright.

Then do this but after the first piro to inverted keep the piro going and piro on the spot for say 5 seconds and then piro flip out and do the same upright and so on..

Then the hard bit is timeing, as mentioned in the thread i would say the best way is to turn simulation speed down. You need to concentrate on the timeing pushing forward nose down on cyclic for the 1st movement and stiring around until inverted where you will pull back on cyclic when you are inverted tail in to pull yourself back up and continue the stir until level.

Probably not worded best but hope u can take bits from it

[matt27]

good thread this

also thinking that somebody or some people even could make a list of the things all beginners through to 3d masters should learn

forexample starting off with hovering tail in
hovering left side
hovering right side
hovering nose in
lazy 8's
etc.
all the way to the razy moves

i know this would help me because when i go on the sim i dont set any goals and this would give me a training program in effect
think it would also help the beginners and the intermediate pilots for their next steps
this could then be made a sticky in the beginners section

all the best

[mark lane]

BAM down goes the 1st hurdle!!! Why are you talking about chaos lol!

For any on lookers advice for chaos is as follows:

All angles upright and inverted,
Piro upright and inverted on the spot and in figure 8's,

Try to first master doing a piro flip into inverted, hold it there and then piro flip back into upright.

Then do this but after the first piro to inverted keep the piro going and piro on the spot for say 5 seconds and then piro flip out and do the same upright and so on..

Then the hard bit is timeing, as mentioned in the thread i would say the best way is to turn simulation speed down. You need to concentrate on the timeing pushing forward nose down on cyclic for the 1st movement and stiring around until inverted where you will pull back on cyclic when you are inverted tail in to pull yourself back up and continue the stir until level.

Probably not worded best but hope u can take bits from it

Perfecty articulated mate!!... just bloody hard to do!!!!

I have started pyro control on the sim, static and inverted and its starting to come good... all the little corrections to keep the heli still I can do a messy pyroing circuit also on the sim. I will stick to perfecting these and then move on to the next step!

[t-rex pedro]

BAM down goes the 1st hurdle!!! Why are you talking about chaos lol!

PMSL!! I was asking about piros/chaos as after all the boring orientation practice I will probably want to let my hair down and try something interesting!!

Seriously though, I'm genuinely interested in the progression route even if I'm a long ways off trying it for real. I wasnt sure whether chaos is more of a timing thing rather than actual control as even you look a bit of a passenger sometimes Stu!! LOL!!!

[3dbasher]

i find over doing it does'nt help specially if your not progressing... 20 mins on it and i've had enough

[squeaky pete]

Im in favour of learning the boring stuff, but.......always a but...... Just flying around and trying new stuff helps with it aswell, makes it abit more fun aswell, im trying to crack piro control at the moment, and as boring as spinning on one spot is, it has helped so much on my orientation, its mr clarkes fault, standing with him when he was flying was truely something to aim for, was so gracefull and controlled, i have more appreciation for that, dnt get me wrong, i love watching a heli get a full on stick banging, but from a techincal view, i love the piro stuff, so the sim is playing a big part in that now! Almost nail a inverted piroing wall of death now lol cant do it right wall up tho..... Doh!!!!!

[Ashley Davis]

if you can, sim early in the evening rather than late. Later on your brain is trying to go to sleep and progress learning stuff is much slower than when you are fully awake.

There isn't really a set route for learning 3D, everybody learns different things at different times. However, you do have to learn the orientations or it does get difficult.
Also learning really tough moves is just a case of beating your brain up with endless practice (and crashes) until it gives in and does it for you.

[Tim Procter]

Also learning really tough moves is just a case of beating your brain up with endless practice (and crashes) until it gives in and does it for you.

Totally agree.

[richieclarkie]

matt27

As has been said there is no "ideal" path but there are some basics you should nail to then be able to expect to fly the harder 3D stuff.

The minimum you should be able to do is pyro on the spot and move around reasonably comfortably both upright and inverted. I see people trying to chaos and never really getting it until they nail piros, flips and rolls on the spot.

A good progression path would be something like this:

• Lean all 4 orientations both upright and inverted - completely controlled.
• Learn all the stuff you need for a B.
• Note: All your flying at this stage should be evenly paced, centered to yourself and show good height control.

Start to do 3D (Not particularly in order)

• Learn to to flip and roll on the spot.
• Learn tail down tick tocks
• Learn rainbows
• Learn Backwards Circuits
• Learn Forward inverted circuits
• Learn Backward inverted circuits
• Learn airleron tick tocks
• Learn Piros on the spot (preferable both left and right rudder)
• Learn to move the heli around piroing (to exactly where you want)

At this point you should be ready to learn Chaos.

Once thing that hasn't been mentioned is the importance of real stick time transference to the sim. I.e. often you need to fly for real to then come back to the sim and go to the next level of progression on a move.

Also don't expect this to all happen quickly, but if you put the time at the beginning to nail all your orientations things will definitely slot into place quicker later on.

[Rctintin]

Thankyou Richie, great post and most helpful for us learning the trade.

You forgot to say about landing an inverted auto!!

[Bruinbear]

Great thread Pete.
Yeah the sim can be a very useful tool or just a bit of fun.
When I saw a demo of the Reflex XTR sim at a show a few years ago I decided to buy one. It sure gave me the change to try R/C flying again after a few attempts with a couple of ic planes many years ago and taking them home in bin bags, I gave up. I started flying planes again a couple of years ago, got on well and a year later tried my first heli. I have not looked back since and have enjoyed flying heli's for some time now.
I feel that if you practice on the sim what ever it is your trying to achieve and get reasonably comfortable on there, then I've found that theres a pretty good chance you'll be able to pull it off for real. Orientation is for me the key !
If anyone now asks me about getting into flying, I always recommend that they buy a sim first. It has sure paid for itself and you can always get your flying fix when the weather is crap.
If it wasn't for the sim I don't think I'd be flying today. I luv my Phoenix sim !
Mike.

[cupracing]

Agreed, the sim not only helps me improve but keeps me interested. Without it I think the hobby would be impossible.

[spunkmyer]

Some people I have spoke to about sims see them as nothing more than a game and would rather use the real thing to learn. Thats fine if you have money behind you to keep fixing your heli.

I use my sim everyday for basic stuff like hovering, nose in etc. When trying something new I record the flight and reply any crashes to see what I did wrong. Seems to work for me

[Tim Procter]

I would like to thank t-rex pedro for posting this thread.

Very interesting and useful for anyone learning to fly helis.

[Sesame]

The sim can be a useful tool, but I have to say I do have trouble keeping an interest in it, that is unless I have a goal, at the moment im trying to learn a manouver which is really giving me problems, but until I can get it right on there, I will have no chance of getting it nailed at the field.

so short sessions fairly regularly works for me, and keep them focused.