Phoenix or RealFlight 7...

[IRON MAN Ai]

Hey guys, so recently got into the hobby and have an Align 450L 6s Dominator sitting in the box waiting to be built.

One of the first things I need would be to get myself a tx and I'm thinking about the DX7s as recommended by a few people from here but my concern then is what simulator to get; I heard of these two before when looking up all things RC Heli's and was wondering which one is ideal and best recommended?

Or is that like apples & oranges?

Is one better than the other, the difference is?

Suppose the only other question I have is, is flying RC Heli's really that difficult? Looking around, watching vids etc and I'm starting to get the impression it's really difficult. Obviously there's a big fear factor to get over in terms of the initial "it's not a toy, it's a fully functioning model" & the intimidation that can occur with the size as well as the looming fact of the price tag on the thing and the gut wrenching feeling of it potentially slamming into the ground after all the hard work building & funding that went into it.

Hoping this simulator will help brush up on the hand to eye coordination needed etc and important skills for basic flight. Understand that nothing compares to the real deal of flying the actual model in real time.

Thanks for the help and look forward to hearing from everyone.

[SaneAdam]

Yes, it really is very difficult. Very…. But thats what makes it such an amazing rewarding hobby/lifestyle

It takes a lot of time and dedication.

A sim is a must if you want to progress at a good rate without destroying too many models and costing yourself a fortune.

Phoenix will be fine for you. Or get Real Flight if you want. You will be fine with either

It will not help you with the fear factor which you rightly point out. The only cure for that is stick time and bags of confidence and ability

[Supa Koopa]

Both are good learning tools.

I have both and prefer Realflight as things are just as difficult to do on realflight as they are in real life. Phoenix seems a little too easy to me. Bear in mind I don't mess with the models though, I just fly them as they arrive.

Can't really go wrong with either.

[IRON MAN Ai]

Thanks for the feedback, really appreciated. Probably go for Realflight then if that's the case, saw a video showing what it offers. Different challenges like mini games that give an objective to train you to the controls which I think will be of great help. Unless Phoenix does that too? But if that's the case and RF7 is more real to life then that'd be better. Cheers.

[uiron]

don't get distracted by other "fun" sim features. You'll learn most productively if you just treat it like gym - a clear plan of excercises, each day, no long sessions required. I would say try the real thing once in sim you can hover in place in all four basic orientations (tail in, nose in, nose left, nose right) and fly a circle in front of you while keeping it in nice shape and even altitude. It's a lot for a beginner, but better to be way ahead in sim than in real life, at least for first couple of years. You'll notice that once you're flying the real thing, it's much harder, not only because it behaves differently, but also because of all the adrenaline, the sound, the pressure on yourself, etc.


The start is the hardest. But one day you'll come to the field, fly all your batteries and go back home with your heli intact. The next day you'll try hovering inverted, because you'll already be doing that in sim. It's a rewarding experience.

[myxiplx]

When you first start out pretty much any sim will work, they're all good enough at modelling the basics and it will probably take you a year or two to get to the stage you notice their limitations.

CP helicopters are hard to learn, they're fast little things that tend to smash into pieces if you make a mistake :-) A great analogy for how they fly is this:

Imagine you have a shallow bowl, with a marble at the bottom. You can tilt the bowl to move the marble around.
- They toy helicopters in the shops fly like this. The marble rolls around gently, and comes back to the middle if you stop.
- CP helicopters fly as if you've turned a shallow bowl upside down and are trying to keep it balanced on the top. You need constant corrections just to keep them in one place.
- And then when you turn the helicopter towards you, tipping the bowl backwards now makes the marble come towards you, and tipping it left makes it go right....

Having said that, don't be discouraged, they're awesome to fly once you've learnt the knack, but it's worth starting with a small model or a simulator to get those skills before you buy something bigger. I wrote up a guide to some of the more popular models a little while back:

What should I buy? A RC Helicopter beginners guide

Myx

[hedge]

Either will do just fine for you so buy on budget or gut feel.

There are a few approaches to take on learning nothing works for everyone but all of us take some parts of each to get through. The more research you do you will come across guide after guide.

For me the sim is a tool to learn new moves. I cant just sim, I have to sim with a goal. That goal is a new move that I can fly on my heli, once learned that means I dont do it on the sim - unless I am practicing transitions for a routine. What it also means is I can have weeks away from the sim while I perfect the new move in real life. For me (thats ME) I don't learn move after move, it takes me a few months to really nail a manouver but once nailed then I move on. I also dont bother flying like a pro on the sim only to find in real life I can barely hold a hover.

The other part of this approach is once you can do a move on the sim - repeat it without crashing then you are ready to take it to the field.

I never practice more than 1-2 moves ahead of what I do in real life.

There are great guides and tutorials from some great rc heli pros I like the series by Bobby Watts and Bert Kammerer called SmackTalk they cover all sorts of skills and knowledge in cheap downloadable videos - but there are lots of good free reference sites as well.

[SaneAdam]

IMO, you could also consider neXt. I have been using it for a while now. The stock feel of the models is excellent. They have presets created by Mirko Cesena and they fly fantastic. So for more advanced pilots there is a ready to fly version of every model tuned by Mirko. Which is great.

The other more sedate settings also still feel very nice. So, for a beginner, i can imagine neXt would be a good option as there is little to no tweaking needed. I found Phoenix models needed a lot of tweaking to get them to fly as i like. I also found AccuRC very fiddly and confusing when trying to set things up. I didn't like the stock feel of the models. I can't comment on Real Flight as it is one i have not tried yet.

neXt is the most "plug and play" sim out of all of those that i have used anyway. Coupled with great physics that imo felt superior to Phoenix. I am very happy with it. The only reason i changed from Phoenix was due to the Vbar control only working with neXt at the moment. Although i believe they are working on something to make it compatible with Phoenix also. As has been said though, I'm sure you will be happy with any of them. I just think neXt is the easiest to tune.

[Peteski]

I'm using neXt too as a complete beginner. Seems great as a learning tool.

@SaneAdam - where do I find the Mirko Cesana presets you mentioned? I see soft, medium, hard and "Thomas" settings for each heli. I was wondering what the "Thomas" settings related to?

[SGD]

+1 on the neXt. Been the easiest to set up I've used and can be configured to use a wide range of transmitters and controllers. You can download it and run it in demo mode with your keyboard to get a look around and to check that your machine will run it ok.
Helis fly great and I find myself using it more and more over RealFlight, Phoenix, Accurc and AeroFly 7.
neXt is a helis only sim whereas the others have or will have fixed wing capability but if your only interested in helis it well worth considering.

neXt - CGM rc Heli Simulator

[SGD]

@SaneAdam - where do I find the Mirko Cesana presets you mentioned? I see soft, medium, hard and "Thomas" settings for each heli. I was wondering what the "Thomas" settings related to?

I think Mirko only has one so far and that's the Logo 700 Xxtreme.

If you go into the models tab and click through all the models you will see the different IU setting and the pilots name will be on the fourth tab if the model has been set up by a given pilot. Those models without a pilots name is probably set up by the developer.

[james_2k]

I use realflight 7.5. I haven't tried any others but it is working fine. Shame there's not many helis in in as standard. The only align is an old 500 flybarred one!

[Peteski]

I think Mirko only has one so far and that's the Logo 700 Xxtreme.

If you go into the models tab and click through all the models you will see the different IU setting and the pilots name will be on the fourth tab if the model has been set up by a given pilot. Those models without a pilots name is probably set up by the developer.

Found it thanks. So I presume all the other named pilot setups are pros linked to that particular brand.

[IRON MAN Ai]

don't get distracted by other "fun" sim features. You'll learn most productively if you just treat it like gym - a clear plan of excercises, each day, no long sessions required. I would say try the real thing once in sim you can hover in place in all four basic orientations (tail in, nose in, nose left, nose right) and fly a circle in front of you while keeping it in nice shape and even altitude. It's a lot for a beginner, but better to be way ahead in sim than in real life, at least for first couple of years. You'll notice that once you're flying the real thing, it's much harder, not only because it behaves differently, but also because of all the adrenaline, the sound, the pressure on yourself, etc.


The start is the hardest. But one day you'll come to the field, fly all your batteries and go back home with your heli intact. The next day you'll try hovering inverted, because you'll already be doing that in sim. It's a rewarding experience.

Cheers for that, what I meant by the mini games was that as well as doing free flight in the sim, the mini games give you objectives to try and complete. As my other hobby is playing games it subconsciously improves dexterity, reflexes & hand to eye coord. Even without realising. That is something the mini games teach, not to get hung up by "a mini game" that is just a shop front, the real practise of the mini game would be you've learnt the basics in free flight, or other training exercises and then you apply what you've learned into the mini game to complete it. Before you know it you've picked up key skills that will be vital to flying. It's just a theory and I'll soon see, but I do get what you're saying =)

I plan on making a trip up to Midland Helicopters on Monday if they're an open store, yet to know if they are open to the public or if it's just an online store?

[IRON MAN Ai]

Ah I can't edit yet. Thanks for all the other replies too didn't realise there were more; definitely going to check out neXt as it has the Align 450L Dominator (that's what my Mrs brought me for b'day present, was a shock & awe surprise present!). Haven't seen it on the list of the others but understand you can just learn on the bigger models or similar anyway having read around?

Just skim reading at the moment on that neXt link, but would you be able to use it with the DX7s? Was recommended that TX and it looks affordable unless there's a better one for cheaper that is perfect for the 450L Dom 6s?

Also my other question for Real Flight, on the Midland Heli listings, there's a mode 1 & 2... erm... the difference? =S