500 Size scale questions

[antsis]

They are correct in a sense. You do not really need stabilisation on a multi blade head in the same way you do not need a gyro on the rudder. With patience, the model can be set up to fly without stabilisation. However, this is tricky and the model does react slightly differently, so a relatively inexperienced pilot may not be able to cope.

Stabilisation systems are basically extra gyros on the elevator and aileron and work just like the one on the rudder. They make flying multiblade heads easier especially in windy conditions. They also sort out the phasing which is the most important factor with a multiblade head.

This is my Trex600e with the RC-Aerodyne 5 blade head and 530mm CF blades. The first flight without any stabilisation.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IuyhQsuDAI"]YouTube - trex multi head test.mp4[/ame]

[dannyhough]

I know you are correct Ant but for me even with the CX flapping hinge head which is specificaly designed to not need Estab i found the flying experience without a system a less than relaxing experience and I consider myself a reasonably experienced pilot.

The rigid heads are a real handfull with no gadgetry, i test hover all the helis in P&B with whatever head they are getting without stabilisation just to get it a spot on mechanically and then let the Estab smooth things out.

That's some pretty nice flying for an unstabilised FBL heli by the way

The best reason i can think of for mechanical phasing is to save £'s. iI you set the mech phasing then you can run a BeastX for £150, using a controller to set the phasing means getting a SK720 or Helicommand etc and then you asre looking at £350 +. Which is a big difference in most peoples books.

Of course if you can fly with no assistance and are happy with it then you save even more.

[Cuppa]

They are correct in a sense. You do not really need stabilisation on a multi blade head in the same way you do not need a gyro on the rudder. With patience, the model can be set up to fly without stabilisation. However, this is tricky and the model does react slightly differently, so a relatively inexperienced pilot may not be able to cope.

Stabilisation systems are basically extra gyros on the elevator and aileron and work just like the one on the rudder. They make flying multiblade heads easier especially in windy conditions. They also sort out the phasing which is the most important factor with a multiblade head.

This is my Trex600e with the RC-Aerodyne 5 blade head and 530mm CF blades. The first flight without any stabilisation.

YouTube - trex multi head test.mp4

I am running TF scale blades on my HIND was wondering what
h/s are you on, and what motor-pinion teeth and motor kv?
also are you on 22,2v? i hope to test fly at the week end

[antsis]

I am running TF scale blades on my HIND was wondering what
h/s are you on, and what motor-pinion teeth and motor kv?
also are you on 22,2v?

At the time the video was taken, I was using the stock Align 600L (1620Kv) motor and 75A ESC. If I remember correctly, I think the main gear was the 181T helical and the pinion was a 11T. I adjusted the throttle curve to give me a HS of around 1500. Lipo used was a 6S 5000mA 20C.

When I did some research on the optimal HS for the 5 blade head, most of the replies said to run it at 1700. However, I ran this head from 1200 to 1800 and found no significant difference. However, it behaved completely differently when the mechanics were put into the fus.

I had one near fatal incident where, after approx 2 mins, the model behaved as if the battery was low. It was near fatal because the area I was flying in did not have many clear landing spots and I was rapidly running out of power. Luckily there was only minimal damage. You'll notice the beginning is a little ropey. I had just flown my aurora and had to get used to the different characteristics of the multi.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA_UCBUR0zo"]YouTube - Tony Scale flying TREX 600E 1[/ame]

The battery checked fine on the tester and the motor was cold, so I suspected the ESC. I fitted the Scorpion 4025-1100Kv and 120A ESC. I fitted the 170 straight main spur and a 13T pinion which gives me a HS around 1600.

Since then I have only had 4 flights during which time the same symptoms of a low batt returned. I can only think this is due to the batt now.

[trillian]

They are correct in a sense. You do not really need stabilisation on a multi blade head in the same way you do not need a gyro on the rudder. With patience, the model can be set up to fly without stabilisation. However, this is tricky and the model does react slightly differently, so a relatively inexperienced pilot may not be able to cope.

Yeah, technically you can fly a regular two blade head FBL without electronic stabilization but it might not be very fun.

The point is that on their website they seem to be making a distinction beween some of the heads as not needing it whereas others they are implying that electronic stabilization is recommended.

[Cuppa]

Just spoke to Nole at midland heli would seem i'm looking
at getting the new align 1220kv motor with built in coo;ing fan!
then it would be easyer to get the h/s i want (1700ish?)
the blades are TF from sportsmoto airfoild (like a wing) and
flex as thay should (no head dampers) esc can stay stock
align. i am going to set it up on a 3G fbl unit to begin with but
i realy want a beast X on it

[trillian]

Just spoke to Nole at midland heli would seem i'm looking
at getting the new align 1220kv motor with built in coo;ing fan!
then it would be easyer to get the h/s i want (1700ish?)
the blades are TF from sportsmoto airfoild (like a wing) and
flex as thay should (no head dampers) esc can stay stock
align. i am going to set it up on a 3G fbl unit to begin with but
i realy want a beast X on it

I have yet to 'go flybarless' on any of my helis although I do have a BeastX 450 project going. But one thought that comes to mind is that on a multi-blade head with the right blades etc. if it is fairly flyable with no stabilization then perhaps you could run a 3G or Beast X but at a lower gain than you might with a regular 2 blade head. The idea being just to get that bit of correction from wind etc.

My other thought (especially after reading all the CC horror stories the other day) is that maybe it's best to use a separate BEC rather than one built-in to the ESC? Or a small RX battery as a backup.

[Cuppa]

I have yet to 'go flybarless' on any of my helis although I do have a BeastX 450 project going. But one thought that comes to mind is that on a multi-blade head with the right blades etc. if it is fairly flyable with no stabilization then perhaps you could run a 3G or Beast X but at a lower gain than you might with a regular 2 blade head. The idea being just to get that bit of correction from wind etc.

My other thought (especially after reading all the CC horror stories the other day) is that maybe it's best to use a separate BEC rather than one built-in to the ESC? Or a small RX battery as a backup.

yep running bec's on both my scale's makes sence, plus you can place the
rx battery to correct c of g without adding weight, a small computer fan
also helps with any heat build up

[antsis]

The point is that on their website they seem to be making a distinction beween some of the heads as not needing it whereas others they are implying that electronic stabilization is recommended.

I had a look at their site and you're correct in that they say stabilisation is not needed. They also mention that although stabilisation is not needed, it will assist in performance.

I found this in the notes for their 600 size 3 blade head,

Can I fly without a 2 or 3 axis gyro? It is recommended to fly with a stabilization system. RC Aerodyne is designing scale blades to help with dampening for those who choose to fly without. It does require more work to fly without. It will be quite a bit more sensitive. Adding expo will help but it will take some getting used to.

So it seems they are saying you can fly without, but it would also be a good idea to use some type of system. To be honest, I think I will probably use a stab system on my next multi head project.

My other thought (especially after reading all the CC horror stories the other day) is that maybe it's best to use a separate BEC rather than one built-in to the ESC? Or a small RX battery as a backup.

I am using a 6V 4600mA Nimh pack on my MD500.

[dannyhough]

Just a quick one on the TF model scale blades, i think that i am right saying the Sportmotto have the first generation blades that are full aerofoil and weighted.

Worth checking as TF have now brought out new semi symetrical blades that are unweighted. Alot of people have had issues with the weighted scale blades myself included on a 500 project.

The weighted blades were i think believed to give a better dampning effect especially with a floating hinge style head but this has been proved to not be the case. The semi sym design should reduce drag and therefor power consumption and make for a more directly responsive heli.

Align 3G and BeastX are both perfectly good for running multiblade heads i did find that i had to increase the gains on the 3G to get the thing sitting well. Yet too try the BeastX myself but from what a have read the same seems to be the case, slightly more than mid gain. Of course this will no doubt change from model to model and pilot to pilot but it's worth making a mental note.

[trexaddict]

I do run a 3G system on my sportsmoto 4bld head 500 trex AH64 Apache soon to be
Beast X also putting a beasty on my 50scale HIND on Trex
600e.
In my view to wear a kilt with no pants, risky! i prefer the
things i value to be well secure!

I see you have ran a 4 blade with a 3g I've been asked to do a Augusta with a 4 blade head but I was under the impresion that 3G diidnt do multi (obviosly wrong) can you pass on any tips with regards to set up

sorry for hijacking the thread

[dannyhough]

Hi

Only thing the 3G wont do is the Phasing, same as the BeastX. Setting the phasing mechanically isn't a problem so either system is useable. If you want to be able to adjust the phasing electronicly then you'll need a higher end FBL controller, the Skookum SK360 is about the cheapest that will do the job but is becomming harder to find by the day. The SK720 superceeded the 360 but costs a heap more, not sure what the likes of V- bar etc offer but worth looking into if you want the electronic phasing.

[electricsceadu]

you won't find a new sk360 unless its old stock
its no longer made
but you can have a shiney new sk720 that costs more

with the 4 blade head set it as per a 2 blade on the electronics but set the phasing mechanicaly