Raptor 50 pitch/throttle curves

[chris427]

Need some advise on setting up my newly acquired old skool Raptor 50. I've been away from rc stuff for about 8 years or more so finding my head is hurting more than it did when I last had a helicopter.
I set mine today with bottom at -10 mid at 0 and top at +10 and throttle was bottom 0 point 1 is 17.5 2 is 33.5 3 is 52 4 is 65 5 is 79 and top is 90, seems a smooth curve but doesn't seem right and my mate who flies says both are wrong but I used to fly -10 +10 0 middle with hover about 66% stick, he said throttle curve needs changing in the middle so at the point of hover to about 7/8 degrees lift it has a flatter power with the top pitch needing no more than 90% power, engine is an OS 50 hyper.
The other thing is with the throttle curve set at 0 bottom when I click throttle hold it then moves the carb arm more than I would expect, it's set to -5% so my feeling is as soon as I click it off the revs will be nought as carb is closed and when I click throttle cut it moves even further even when I dial in -25, something not right somewhere. Bearing in mind I have forgotten most things I learnt and I have followed good old Ray's dvd set up, does any of the above make any sense or is it totally wrong?
TX is a JRPCM9X2 with 7 point curves.
I used to run a rev lock on my old ex2 so was going to fit one to this so will set the head speed up on that once I've got this set up correct.
I don't plan on doing anything except hovering for a while and some lazy circuits, some will say I don't need the -10 but I liked it at that before and will be confident with it when I come to move forward.
I'm going to go through the mechanical set up of the throttle servo/linkage/carb tomorrow so I may have solved that by tomorrow night but all comments welcome but be gentle!

[cjm180]

Hey

I cant help you too much on the above, its been a long time since i set up a raptor, but dont forget about raptor technique:

Raptor Technique

still plenty of useful stuff on there for setting up

[trillian]

For your 'normal mode' there's no hard and fast rule about the throttle curve, I tend to setup mine so that the hovering throttle is not screaming away. I also used to flatten the curve a bit at the point where you're hovering so that small stick moves don't change the throttle as much and this helps with holding a steady hover.

For your idle-up curves it will be more like a V and if you use a governor then it's going to kick in at a certain threshold anyway.

For the pitch, I agree with +/- 10 and zero at mid-stick, especially if some of your flying is in idle-up for aerobatic stuff, you don't want a big pitch jump when you flip the flight mode switch. The possible exception to this would be if you do F3C where they often setup a smaller pitch range for really precise hovering.

[chris427]

Hey

I cant help you too much on the above, its been a long time since i set up a raptor, but dont forget about raptor technique:

Raptor Technique

still plenty of useful stuff on there for setting up

Just been looking, can't seem to find anything about set up on there?

[cjm180]

On the link i posted you need to click the link on the left called 'Raptor R30/R50/R90 v1/v2'

this will take you to here

Raptor Technique

use the pull down menus on the left side

the one at the bottom, titled configuration/settings, in the pull down list there is one called '==throttle curves==' for example

Configurations/Settings

[chris427]

Now I see them, many thanks although now reading that all my settings are wrong compared to the dvd I watched yesterday to set it up. Gyro rate is wrong as it's set to auto and 80% 70% 20% not Rudd d/r like he says set it, pitch is not right although I think I'll stay with -10 + 10 and hover at 3/4 stick, not going to 0 at the bottom as it'll never want to come down should wind get it. -4 or -6 seem a better compromise. Throttle curve is wrong as he says only go to 70% on an OS hyper and mines at 90% and about 65% hovering so over speed there and a screaming head speed above it. but that can be solved with a governor . Thank you for the link though. I'm more confused than ever now though, 2 set ups totally different but both followed and used for years, I feel like I've got in way over my head! Doesn't help using old radio gear as everyone seems to be on 2.4 these days and 35mhz is like asking for repair advice on a steam engine!

[cjm180]

Hey Chris

Apologies if i have confused you even more. I think there is no right or wrong settings. i think if you are in the ball park, once you pick it up into the hover you will get a bit of a feel where you are. You will see straight away if the engine is screaming away at hover, or it takes more or less than 3/4 stick to maintain hover!

You are actually almost identically in the place i was when i started again. I flew a pair of raptor 50's in 2005 / 2006. Funds and patience ran out and then they got parked on the shelf until 2014. In 05 / 06 i used raptor technique, as the walkthrus almost used the same gear i had, futaba 9c, gy401 etc. I particularly found raptor techniques tail set up and engine cut off to be perfect.

I am familiar with the DVD set up video you mentioned. When i came back into it in 2014 i got the raptors back out and running. This time i used the DVD you mentioned to check everything out. I think i wiped the model from the radio and exclusively used the DVD. One thing i did in 2005 is hover at mid stick. This was a hugh mistake i only discovered in 2014. It took alot of time to get out of that habit, even after all that time. The biggest issue with this is i had far far greater resolution back in 2005 on the collective with 1/2 stick to full stick covering 5 deg (hover at 5 and 10 full). Where flying at 3/4 stick means u have to be a lot better at collective management. So my advice would be to stick at 3/4 hover.

Anyways i had a crash, something went wrong in the tail, and as i was re-learning tail in hovering in late 2014 i was not prepared for a 45 deg tail move uncommanded. I said in my head if ever i feel i have not got control just close the sticks. This is what i did and it made a right mess, from only 1m up!



Anyways i then used my no 2 raptor to make one good one out the two. I recall the pain setting all the head up again, all the linkages / binding / play in the plastic parts etc / if i recall there are 9 or 10 push rods in the head to set. It was a royal pain in the arse. And infact the rebuild and setting up was worse than the crash itself.

Then i had all the engine problems, setting it up, setting the servo for it, driving all the way to the field for it not to start. Most of the issues i am sure were from my own inexpeirence, but i seemed to spend as long getting it to work than actually learning to fly again. Because my flying was only at the hover, i couldnt really get the engine anywhere near. I used the finger on the back plate trick to see if i was running lean or rich, (i think if u can hold ur finger on the back plate for 6 to 10 seconds immediately after shut down then u r close. longer than that too rich, shorter than that too lean on the os hyper 50). In the end i bought a CSM revlock gov. But this only masked my poor set up.

Anyways first upgrade was a 14sg, 2.4ghz. That was one of two things i noticed had moved on alot since 2005. 2.4ghz. Didnt notice too much difference actually flying, other than the radio looked less like a toy compared to the 9c, and i didnt have to worry about frequency. Infact i didnt have to worry about frequency anyway coz no one at the club used 35mhz anymore

Next was ofcourse flybarless. I saw another heli at the club, a trex700 FBL and was amazed by two things, the amount of carbon / ali over plastic, and how simple the head looked compared to mine.

I purchased a trex 450L, and after building and setting it up, i was amazed how easier it was compared with the raptor. Unbeleivably easier. I got help for the FBL unit tuning, and away i was. The raptor got sold, and i replaced it with a 600L which is where i am today.

The internet has also moved on, and alot more resources around for the newer stuff. All the newer genuine helis go together alot better than the raptor, alot less faff, alot less to set up mechanically. FBL units have good instructions / youtube videos. All alot better.

the 3rd change i didnt mention was electric. I did tonnes of reseach on this before i went with the 600L. I was happy to take a step into the unknown on the 450l because it was relatively cheap. A small charger would cover it etc. I read forums regarding the costs of electric vs fuel. I went with the 600 as mentioned. Mainly beacuse ease of setup of head speed / power train side, and more importantly consistancy. No matter if its cold, hot, hummid, just landed etc its the same power, same head speed, all the time.

Other differences with electric is there is alot more power for comparable nitro machines, and its instant power. So i wont lie that did intimidate me alot with the 600. It took me a while to get my head round that. Also safety, when u cant hear the engine running on a nitro u know u r safe, not so on an electric. I also did research on this and came up with my own safety / start up routine.

I will be the first to tell you tho the costs involved in electric is immense compared to nitro. The cost comes in kitting up for it. For the 600 it ment a bigger more capable charger, not to mention stocking up with multiple sets of batteries, and a generator as well to charge at the field. I have found with the 450 and 600 that what ever the heli cost with all its bits, servo, esc, motor etc, it will cost u the same amount get 5 ot 6 sets of packs for it. Ouch!!

But i love the electrics, i wouldnt go back to a nitro exclusively. I may have one again as its an engine, and boys love engines, but i cant see it being my staple goto heli!

Anyways sorry to go on, u have stirred some memories for me being in such a close place to where i was. lol. Good luck with it and keep us posted on your progress. If you got anything u think i can help with just drop me a PM buddy

EDIT - dont get me wrong, the raptors in the day were the best heli on the market, and my flying came on at the time so much quicker than a century hawk i had. The raptors i had were the best helis i have ever had, as they gave me the most excitement and it was the heli i first learnt hovering and circuits on.

[cjm180]

Just a thought, be careful with the higher head speeds if you are running wooden blades the original kit came with. From the back of my memory i think 1800 / 1900 rpm was about tops for the woodies.

[chris427]

Just a thought, be careful with the higher head speeds if you are running wooden blades the original kit came with. From the back of my memory i think 1800 / 1900 rpm was about tops for the woodies.

Thanks for the info and yes seems I'm now where you were! Raptor has carbons on it not woodies so just need tracking checking I hope!
When I first started I had a JR Airskipper 30 that was a nice little heli but a pig for parts when those learning crashes arrived so went straight for a 90 and got an Hirobo Freya 90 which then led to a fully kitted Freya EX2 with carb smart, GV1, GY611 and carbon galore, back in the day it was the dogs danglies.
I never crashed either of the 90's, used FF9 35mhz radio and knew roughly how to set it up and spent a lot of time being comfortable in multi angle hovers before doing some big gentle circuits.
Crapped my pants when I finally turned the tail and it wasn't facing me anymore but a gentle push of the left stick and a bit more tail and it did a beautiful stable circuit tracking like it was on rails. A few more followed in the opposite direction and I was happy. I bought a mini titan for the rear garden and spent hours out there practising precise hover and tiny circuits that were so close to the fence one good gust and I would hit it so got good on flying accurate and all in -10 /0/+10
I then had a massive near fatal motorbike crash and sold the lot as had a 4 year recovery and it just sat there. So here I am back with 35mhz and nitro. I just love nitro, the smell, the smoke and the noise always make me grin!
Today I went through a few things on Raptor Technique and reset the 401 with his suggested settings instead of Rays "put it in auto" settings and also learnt that the 401 signal colour is yellow so after trying to find the tx switch to turn off HH for set up I then found it was on the gear switch so that's one up to RT settings. I may change the 401 for a Spartan Quark though.
I have a mate I used to fly with that still has the same JRPCM9X2 radio set up on one of his old nitro helis so been chatting to him and he remembered when he set mine up with me we went -10 0 + 10 to get me in to the habit of 3/4 stick hover and gentle moves about in prep for more acrobatic stuff in the same stick position so sorted, leaving it as that, one bonus is now now have a digital pitch gauge! Unheard of in 2008!!!
I'm going to go back through the throttle/servo/carb arm settings from the start again later and throttle hold then put the throttle settings in from Rays set up and compare it to RT, from what I remember Rays has a nice slow raise in the hover point so revs and head speed are pretty constant around 3/4 stick, 7 point curves are pointless really. Once that's done and test flown and I'll stick a revlock govenor on it, carb settings should be fine as was running perfect when I bought it from a guy with 15 years flying and set up behind him and I bought the same fuel he used but again I'll get a mate to check it and use the infrared temp gun I use on my nitro buggies once I find the temp range I should be looking for, too hot rich it up, too cold lean it up, just right LEAVE IT ALONE!! May fit a carb smart later.
My brother in law who started flying the same time as I did has kept flying and is now 2.4 with a DX9 and flybarless and he said the same about easy set up and flies superb so once I stop crashing while learning again I'll go the same route but for now a Raptor 50 with an endless supply of cheap new and used spares and a 35mhz TX will do the job, I have even found the orange frequency disk I used to put on the club board and orange radio flag so retro here we come!
Just to keep things the same, I'm recovering from another motorbike accident, this time a stupid deer jumped over a bloody hedge straight in front of my bike!!