FBL Tuning guide?

[chrisleematt21]

Is there a FBL tuning guide?

Something which explains a symptom and has the correct solution(s)?

e.g. How to set the Tail Gain correctly, How to set the Rotor Gain correctly...

Also how to know when it is set correctly.

Does such a thing exists even in a very generic format?

I understand that each Flybarless unit will have different settings but some things are the same.

[johnsandywhite]

-----------------FLYBARELESS EXPLAINED INCLUDING PID LOOPS------------------------------------


Now if you "gyro setting experts" could read and check this "manual" if you could find something to correct or
have something to add there...


Basic setup:

- Monitor
In this item, you can check the transmitter configuration and the gyro connections.
Page 1: “A” is Aileron channel, “E” is Elevator channel, “R” is Rudder channel, “C” is Collective pitch channel.
Page 2: “G” is the tail gain given by transmitter. “A:” gyro is in AVCS mode. “N:” gyro is in Normal mode.
“Condition:” current parameters group in gyro.
There are two parameters groups in gyro.

- Installation Direction
Select the direction of the gyro mounting. There are three directions: ”Direction 1”, ”Direction 2”, ”Direction 3”

"Direction 1" is selected when gyro is installed horizontally on helicopter gyro label facing up or down and the
shortest side (side where connectors are) of the gyro facing to the nose or tail of the heli.
"Direction 2" is selected when gyro is installed horizontally on helicopter gyro label facing up or down and the
shortest side (side where connectors are)
of the gyro facing to the left side or right side of the heli.
"Direction 3" is selected when gyro is installed vertically on helicopter side panels gyro label facing left or
right.

- Load model
Download the model data from CX-PB001 to gyro.
Model 1-5 are the parameters saved by the factory.
Model 6-10 are the parameters saved by user.
Gyro manual recommend to select a model among 1-5 models first.

- Tail servo type
Select which kind of servos your helicopter has:
“1520us 71Hz” All the tail and swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“1520us 250Hz” Tail servo is 1520us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“1520us 333Hz” Tail servo is 1520us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
“760us 250Hz” Tail servo is 760us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“760us 400Hz” Tail servo is 760us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
“960us 333Hz” Tail servo is 960us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
(Warning: Be sure that the servo type is correct, otherwise servos may be damaged.
Before completing the servo type selection, don’t connect the servos to the gyro. It may damage the servos and
the gyro.)

- Model type
Select the swashplate type. There are five types:
“Heli Normal” Mechanical mixer
“Heli 120”, 120 degree CCPM
“Heli 135”, 135 degree CCPM
“Heli 140”, 140 degree CCPM
“Heli 90”. 90 degree CCPM
(remember to switch off mixing from your TX.)

- Servo trim
Set neutral point trim function of the four servos. Typically used to center the servo position.

- Servo reverse
Change the direction of the servos.

- Servo limit
Limit function of tail servo and swashplate servos. Allows the adjustment of servo travel.

- Collective range
It is the collective pitch ratio, it can change the maximum and the minimum collective pitch, and the direction
of motion.

- Gyro direction
Gyro compensation direction of each three axis (yaw, roll and pitch).

- Gyro total gain
Gyro total gain of each thee axis (yaw, roll and pitch). Note: The gyro Yaw total gain is determined by both
transmitter and the Yaw total gain setting here. Set yaw total gain value to 100% so it will let the gain be set
from the TX.

- Pirouette optimization
Adjust the sign of pirouette optimization. When entering the menu swashplate tilts in some direction. You can now
treat swashplate as compass. Rotate your helicopter around it's main shaft. Swashplate should remain tilting on
the same direction while helicopter is rotated. e.g. if your swashplate tilts to north, it should point to north
also when helicopter is rotated.


Tail tuning:

- Yaw P
Proportional Gain generates a steering signal on the tail servo which is proportional to the rate error.
The higher proportional gain is, the more direct the tail follows the stick. To setup proportional gain one
should increase it until the tail has a high frequency shaking tendency and then decrease it. The default value
is "80". The proportional gain depends strongly on the individual tail setup. Especially at larger helicopters
with low tail power it can be increased by a factor of two.

- Yaw I
The Integral Gain corresponds to the heading hold gain of a normal gyro. It is used to produce an angular control
of the tail. A to high value will result in a bad stopping behavior with a back bouncing tendency. When integral
gain is to low, the tail is unstable on heavy pitch inputs and can not hold the position. The integral factor is
almost independent on the tail setup of the helicopter. In default settings values are from beginner "25" to
extreme "50".

- Yaw D
Stop gain. During a tail stop (from piros) it will be helpful to use a bit more tail gain to get a crispy stop.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".

- Acceleration L
Acceleration of the left pirouette
This limits the servo throw change per calculation frame on tail servo. For example having 3D helis with super
tail rotors you will be able to get high accelerations without stall effects or bouncing on a stop. With a scaler
and a weak tail it will have stall and overshoot with too much throw change each calculation cycle. So it should
be lowered until we get a stop without bouncing. It will stop more smooth but without overloading the tail.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.

- Acceleration R
Acceleration of the right pirouette
This limits the servo throw change per calculation frame on tail servo. For example having 3D helis with super
tail rotors you will be able to get high accelerations without stall effects or bouncing on a stop. With a scaler
and a weak tail it will have stall and overshoot with too much throw change each calculation cycle. So it should
be lowered until we get a stop without bouncing. It will stop more smooth but without overloading the tail.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.

- Deceleration L
Deceleration of the left pirouette.
If the helicopter tail does not decelerate as fast as the gyro anticipates it overshoots the intended stop
position, then the gyro brings the tail back. The end result is bouncy stop. Since the main rotor torque assist
the stops in one direction, bounce is often observed in the other direction only. To eliminate bounce you can
either improve the mechanical setup to keep the gyro happy in line with default gyro configuration tailored for
high performance 3D helis. Or, lower the gyro's deceleration rate to match the particular heli.
However note that stops may start to feel very soft if the deceleration is dropped too far.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
Default settings values are from beginner "20" to extreme "35".

- Deceleration R
Deceleration of the right pirouette
If the helicopter tail does not decelerate as fast as the gyro anticipates it overshoots the intended stop
position, then the gyro brings the tail back. The end result is bouncy stop. Since the main rotor torque assist
the stops in one direction, bounce is often observed in the other direction only. To eliminate bounce you can
either improve the mechanical setup to keep the gyro happy in line with default gyro configuration tailored for
high performance 3D helis. Or, lower the gyro's deceleration rate to match the particular heli.
However note that stops may start to feel very soft if the deceleration is dropped too far.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
Default settings values are from beginner "20" to extreme "35".

- Tail deadband RC
The deadband of the tail (Rudder) stick.
The RC deadband is to ignore input from sticks that don't return to zero and to remove cross channel stick changes
when the sticks are moved to the limit on the two axises. To small a value will make it hard to do single axis
maneuvers without a change in the other axis (i.e. a flip ends up rolling left or right during the flip...).
Bigger value means that you have to move more rudder stick before anything happens.
This avoids drifting from stick pots and servo noise.
Default settings values are from beginner "80" to extreme "40".

- Tail deadband gyro
The deadband of the yaw gyro
The Gyro deadband is the value used to ignore small changes coming from the gyro MEMS sensors.
This avoids drifting from gyro and servo noise. Big number results in poor stability and drift. Too small a number
can overwork your tail servo.
Default "4" in all configurations.

- Pirouette speed L
The maximum left pirouette speed. Turning speed when rudder is on the left.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "45".

- Pirouette speed R
The maximum right pirouette speed. Turning speed when rudder is on the right.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "45".

- Tail compensate Col>tail
The ratio of collective pitch mixing to tail pitch.
Compensation factor for tail pitch when using high positive and negative collective pitch.
Default "0" in all configurations.

- Tail compensate Cyc>tail
The ratio of cyclic pitch mixing to tail pitch.
Compensation factor for tail when using cyclic (doing tight rolls and loops).
Default "0" in all configurations.
("Tail compensate Cyclic to tail" and "Tail compensate Collective to tail" settings are used to fine tune the
helicopter tail so that tail will be perfectly steady when doing for example tic tocs. If these aren't used tail
still hold, but it will wiggle a bit when gyro is making it's corrections. With these settings it's possible to
give some advance to tail so that gyro doesn't need to do corrections for tail.)


Swash tuning:

- Roll P gain
Proportional Gain produces an regulative action on the swash plate which is proportional to the measured rate
error on the swash plate and thus proportional gain makes the aileron rate follow the rate commanded on the
swash sticks. Abrupt stops of flips should be free of high frequency shaking. If this is not the case the
proportional gain is to high. Also if this is too high, instability and hunting will tend to occur.
Default "80" in all configurations.
With fast cyclic servos this can be increased.
(In all five default profiles "Roll P gain" value is identical to "Pitch P gain" value.)

- Roll I gain
Integral gain is responsible that the helicopter keeps the direction under all circumstances. When wind forces
the helicopter out of its direction, the integral gain is correcting this. Fast forward flight is also stabilized
by the integral gain. Integral gain must be setup so that the helicopter stable during load changes on swash plate
. When integral gain is set to high, the stopping behavior on swash plate is influenced negatively: the helicopter
gets a tendency to slowly drift back after a hard stop. A to high integral gain has also bad influence on fast
forward flight: The elevator control feeling becomes doughy and in extreme situations even slow oscillations
(approx. 1 Hz) can appear.
With fast cyclic servos integral gain can be increased after the first flights in order to get more flight
stability. Default settings values are from beginner "120" to extreme "60".
(In all five default profiles "Roll I gain" value is identical to "Pitch I gain" value.)

- Roll D gain
The Derivative (D) Gain effects the helicopters behavior after a control input is suddenly released. This Gain
allows attenuation of the helicopter body tremor which is generated when the helicopter has been stopped by a
sudden movement of the control stick. In the situation where the P Gain and I Gain have been made too large, the
helicopter body may oscillate if the sticks are operated by flicking them with your fingers. By increasing the D
Gain, the oscillation in the above situation will be reduced, and it will be possible to further increase the I
Gain. Care will be required, because if the D Gain is too large, small oscillations may continue, or the vibration
of the helicopter may cause sudden and severe hunting to occur.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
(In all five default profiles "Roll D gain" value is identical to "Pitch D gain" value.)

- Pitch P gain
Proportional Gain produces an regulative action on the swash plate which is proportional to the measured rate
error on the swash plate and thus proportional gain makes the elevator rate follow the rate commanded on the
swash sticks. Too high proportional gain can cause a oscillating tendency on elevator in fast forward flight and
also a bad stopping behavior on elevator rate changes. Also if this is too high, instability and hunting will
tend to occur.
Default "80" in all configurations.
With fast cyclic servos this can be increased.
(In all five default profiles "Roll P gain" value is identical to "Pitch P gain" value.)

- Pitch I gain
Integral gain is responsible that the helicopter keeps the direction under all circumstances. When wind forces
the helicopter out of its direction, the integral gain is correcting this. Fast forward flight is also stabilized
by the integral gain. Integral gain must be setup so that the helicopter stable during load changes on swash plate
. When integral gain is set to high, the stopping behavior on swash plate is influenced negatively: the helicopter
gets a tendency to slowly drift back after a hard stop. A to high integral gain has also bad influence on fast
forward flight: The elevator control feeling becomes doughy and in extreme situations even slow oscillations
(approx. 1 Hz) can appear.
With fast cyclic servos integral gain can be increased after the first flights in order to get more flight
stability.
Default settings values are from beginner "120" to extreme "60".
(In all five default profiles "Roll I gain" value is identical to "Pitch I gain" value.)

- Pitch D gain
The Derivative (D) Gain effects the helicopters behavior after a control input is suddenly released. This Gain
allows attenuation of the helicopter body tremor which is generated when the helicopter has been stopped by a
sudden movement of the control stick. In the situation where the P Gain and I Gain have been made too large, the
helicopter body may oscillate if the sticks are operated by flicking them with your fingers. By increasing the
D Gain, the oscillation in the above situation will be reduced, and it will be possible to further increase the
I Gain. Care will be required, because if the D Gain is too large, small oscillations may continue, or the
vibration of the helicopter may cause sudden and severe hunting to occur.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
(In all five default profiles "Roll D gain" value is identical to "Pitch D gain" value.)

- Acceleration
Acceleration of the roll and pitch motion.
Roll and pitch acceleration to the desired speed. When this value is high swashplate will tilt fast when stick is
moved. Default "125" in all configurations.

- Deceleration
Deceleration of the roll and pitch motion.
Roll and pitch deceleration to the desired speed or stop. When stick is returned to center it will take some time
(delay) from swash to return. It's normal on FBL helicopters and that returning speed can be controlled with this
settings. Lower the value means easier to fly, but it loses some "edge" from the controls.
Default settings values are from beginner "40" to extreme "55".

- Swash deadband RC
The deadband of the aileron and elevator sticks
The RC deadband is to ignore input from sticks that don't return to zero and to remove cross channel stick changes
when the sticks are moved to the limit on the two axises. To small a value will make it hard to do single axis
maneuvers without a change in the other axis (i.e. a flip ends up rolling left or right during the flip...).
Bigger value means that you have to move more rudder stick before anything happens.
This avoids drifting from stick pots and servo noise.
Default "40" in all configurations.

- Swash deadband gyro
The deadband of the roll and pitch sensors.
The Gyro deadband is the value used to ignore small changes coming from the gyro MEMS sensors.
This avoids drifting from gyro and servo noise. Big number results in poor stability and drift. Too small a
number can overwork your servos.
Default "4" in all configurations.

- Roll agility
It is equivalent to the maximum roll rate.
Bigger the value faster the helicopter makes rolls.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "60".

- Pitch agility
It is equivalent to the maximum pitch rate
Bigger the value faster the helicopter makes loops.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "60".

[chrisleematt21]

Impressive!

[Planehazza]

Some links I have saved:

Flybarless Tail Tuning with V-Bar/Logo Example » RC Heli Nation

T-Rex 600 Nitro - Combined V5

Feature: Bailout usage | VStabi

Then there is always the MrMel videos on youtube.

[myxiplx]

I've never found a full guide so I've been collecting my notes and trying to draft a guide for 6 months or so now, there are a lot of details to take in and a lot of it comes down to experience.

The best resource I've found is the RC Heli Nation podcast, episodes 133 and 134 are just superb and really cover tuning well, both explaining some of the theory, as well as some of the practical things to look out for. I've ended up listening to those episodes three or four times now:
RCHN V 2.0 EP133: PID 101 » RC Heli Nation

[chrisleematt21]

I've never found a full guide so I've been collecting my notes and trying to draft a guide for 6 months or so now, there are a lot of details to take in and a lot of it comes down to experience.

The best resource I've found is the RC Heli Nation podcast, episodes 133 and 134 are just superb and really cover tuning well, both explaining some of the theory, as well as some of the practical things to look out for. I've ended up listening to those episodes three or four times now:
RCHN V 2.0 EP133: PID 101 » RC Heli Nation

I will have a listen to them later thanks.

[Rachel]

have a look at the Spartan site , they explain their set up[s quite well .....
http://www.spartan-rc.com/products/v..._1v10_beta.exe

[crash-test-tomo]

I listened to episode 133 once or twice and it blew my mind, 134 is much easier to make sens e of and actually put into practice. Listen to 134 lots (and lots.. And then once more) and 133 starts to make alot more sense too. Download the podcasts rather than listening via the site...

[chrisleematt21]

-----------------FLYBARELESS EXPLAINED INCLUDING PID LOOPS------------------------------------


Now if you "gyro setting experts" could read and check this "manual" if you could find something to correct or
have something to add there...


Basic setup:

- Monitor
In this item, you can check the transmitter configuration and the gyro connections.
Page 1: “A” is Aileron channel, “E” is Elevator channel, “R” is Rudder channel, “C” is Collective pitch channel.
Page 2: “G” is the tail gain given by transmitter. “A:” gyro is in AVCS mode. “N:” gyro is in Normal mode.
“Condition:” current parameters group in gyro.
There are two parameters groups in gyro.

- Installation Direction
Select the direction of the gyro mounting. There are three directions: ”Direction 1”, ”Direction 2”, ”Direction 3”

"Direction 1" is selected when gyro is installed horizontally on helicopter gyro label facing up or down and the
shortest side (side where connectors are) of the gyro facing to the nose or tail of the heli.
"Direction 2" is selected when gyro is installed horizontally on helicopter gyro label facing up or down and the
shortest side (side where connectors are)
of the gyro facing to the left side or right side of the heli.
"Direction 3" is selected when gyro is installed vertically on helicopter side panels gyro label facing left or
right.

- Load model
Download the model data from CX-PB001 to gyro.
Model 1-5 are the parameters saved by the factory.
Model 6-10 are the parameters saved by user.
Gyro manual recommend to select a model among 1-5 models first.

- Tail servo type
Select which kind of servos your helicopter has:
“1520us 71Hz” All the tail and swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“1520us 250Hz” Tail servo is 1520us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“1520us 333Hz” Tail servo is 1520us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
“760us 250Hz” Tail servo is 760us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“760us 400Hz” Tail servo is 760us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
“960us 333Hz” Tail servo is 960us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
(Warning: Be sure that the servo type is correct, otherwise servos may be damaged.
Before completing the servo type selection, don’t connect the servos to the gyro. It may damage the servos and
the gyro.)

- Model type
Select the swashplate type. There are five types:
“Heli Normal” Mechanical mixer
“Heli 120”, 120 degree CCPM
“Heli 135”, 135 degree CCPM
“Heli 140”, 140 degree CCPM
“Heli 90”. 90 degree CCPM
(remember to switch off mixing from your TX.)

- Servo trim
Set neutral point trim function of the four servos. Typically used to center the servo position.

- Servo reverse
Change the direction of the servos.

- Servo limit
Limit function of tail servo and swashplate servos. Allows the adjustment of servo travel.

- Collective range
It is the collective pitch ratio, it can change the maximum and the minimum collective pitch, and the direction
of motion.

- Gyro direction
Gyro compensation direction of each three axis (yaw, roll and pitch).

- Gyro total gain
Gyro total gain of each thee axis (yaw, roll and pitch). Note: The gyro Yaw total gain is determined by both
transmitter and the Yaw total gain setting here. Set yaw total gain value to 100% so it will let the gain be set
from the TX.

- Pirouette optimization
Adjust the sign of pirouette optimization. When entering the menu swashplate tilts in some direction. You can now
treat swashplate as compass. Rotate your helicopter around it's main shaft. Swashplate should remain tilting on
the same direction while helicopter is rotated. e.g. if your swashplate tilts to north, it should point to north
also when helicopter is rotated.


Tail tuning:

- Yaw P
Proportional Gain generates a steering signal on the tail servo which is proportional to the rate error.
The higher proportional gain is, the more direct the tail follows the stick. To setup proportional gain one
should increase it until the tail has a high frequency shaking tendency and then decrease it. The default value
is "80". The proportional gain depends strongly on the individual tail setup. Especially at larger helicopters
with low tail power it can be increased by a factor of two.

- Yaw I
The Integral Gain corresponds to the heading hold gain of a normal gyro. It is used to produce an angular control
of the tail. A to high value will result in a bad stopping behavior with a back bouncing tendency. When integral
gain is to low, the tail is unstable on heavy pitch inputs and can not hold the position. The integral factor is
almost independent on the tail setup of the helicopter. In default settings values are from beginner "25" to
extreme "50".

- Yaw D
Stop gain. During a tail stop (from piros) it will be helpful to use a bit more tail gain to get a crispy stop.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".

- Acceleration L
Acceleration of the left pirouette
This limits the servo throw change per calculation frame on tail servo. For example having 3D helis with super
tail rotors you will be able to get high accelerations without stall effects or bouncing on a stop. With a scaler
and a weak tail it will have stall and overshoot with too much throw change each calculation cycle. So it should
be lowered until we get a stop without bouncing. It will stop more smooth but without overloading the tail.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.

- Acceleration R
Acceleration of the right pirouette
This limits the servo throw change per calculation frame on tail servo. For example having 3D helis with super
tail rotors you will be able to get high accelerations without stall effects or bouncing on a stop. With a scaler
and a weak tail it will have stall and overshoot with too much throw change each calculation cycle. So it should
be lowered until we get a stop without bouncing. It will stop more smooth but without overloading the tail.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.

- Deceleration L
Deceleration of the left pirouette.
If the helicopter tail does not decelerate as fast as the gyro anticipates it overshoots the intended stop
position, then the gyro brings the tail back. The end result is bouncy stop. Since the main rotor torque assist
the stops in one direction, bounce is often observed in the other direction only. To eliminate bounce you can
either improve the mechanical setup to keep the gyro happy in line with default gyro configuration tailored for
high performance 3D helis. Or, lower the gyro's deceleration rate to match the particular heli.
However note that stops may start to feel very soft if the deceleration is dropped too far.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
Default settings values are from beginner "20" to extreme "35".

- Deceleration R
Deceleration of the right pirouette
If the helicopter tail does not decelerate as fast as the gyro anticipates it overshoots the intended stop
position, then the gyro brings the tail back. The end result is bouncy stop. Since the main rotor torque assist
the stops in one direction, bounce is often observed in the other direction only. To eliminate bounce you can
either improve the mechanical setup to keep the gyro happy in line with default gyro configuration tailored for
high performance 3D helis. Or, lower the gyro's deceleration rate to match the particular heli.
However note that stops may start to feel very soft if the deceleration is dropped too far.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
Default settings values are from beginner "20" to extreme "35".

- Tail deadband RC
The deadband of the tail (Rudder) stick.
The RC deadband is to ignore input from sticks that don't return to zero and to remove cross channel stick changes
when the sticks are moved to the limit on the two axises. To small a value will make it hard to do single axis
maneuvers without a change in the other axis (i.e. a flip ends up rolling left or right during the flip...).
Bigger value means that you have to move more rudder stick before anything happens.
This avoids drifting from stick pots and servo noise.
Default settings values are from beginner "80" to extreme "40".

- Tail deadband gyro
The deadband of the yaw gyro
The Gyro deadband is the value used to ignore small changes coming from the gyro MEMS sensors.
This avoids drifting from gyro and servo noise. Big number results in poor stability and drift. Too small a number
can overwork your tail servo.
Default "4" in all configurations.

- Pirouette speed L
The maximum left pirouette speed. Turning speed when rudder is on the left.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "45".

- Pirouette speed R
The maximum right pirouette speed. Turning speed when rudder is on the right.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "45".

- Tail compensate Col>tail
The ratio of collective pitch mixing to tail pitch.
Compensation factor for tail pitch when using high positive and negative collective pitch.
Default "0" in all configurations.

- Tail compensate Cyc>tail
The ratio of cyclic pitch mixing to tail pitch.
Compensation factor for tail when using cyclic (doing tight rolls and loops).
Default "0" in all configurations.
("Tail compensate Cyclic to tail" and "Tail compensate Collective to tail" settings are used to fine tune the
helicopter tail so that tail will be perfectly steady when doing for example tic tocs. If these aren't used tail
still hold, but it will wiggle a bit when gyro is making it's corrections. With these settings it's possible to
give some advance to tail so that gyro doesn't need to do corrections for tail.)


Swash tuning:

- Roll P gain
Proportional Gain produces an regulative action on the swash plate which is proportional to the measured rate
error on the swash plate and thus proportional gain makes the aileron rate follow the rate commanded on the
swash sticks. Abrupt stops of flips should be free of high frequency shaking. If this is not the case the
proportional gain is to high. Also if this is too high, instability and hunting will tend to occur.
Default "80" in all configurations.
With fast cyclic servos this can be increased.
(In all five default profiles "Roll P gain" value is identical to "Pitch P gain" value.)

- Roll I gain
Integral gain is responsible that the helicopter keeps the direction under all circumstances. When wind forces
the helicopter out of its direction, the integral gain is correcting this. Fast forward flight is also stabilized
by the integral gain. Integral gain must be setup so that the helicopter stable during load changes on swash plate
. When integral gain is set to high, the stopping behavior on swash plate is influenced negatively: the helicopter
gets a tendency to slowly drift back after a hard stop. A to high integral gain has also bad influence on fast
forward flight: The elevator control feeling becomes doughy and in extreme situations even slow oscillations
(approx. 1 Hz) can appear.
With fast cyclic servos integral gain can be increased after the first flights in order to get more flight
stability. Default settings values are from beginner "120" to extreme "60".
(In all five default profiles "Roll I gain" value is identical to "Pitch I gain" value.)

- Roll D gain
The Derivative (D) Gain effects the helicopters behavior after a control input is suddenly released. This Gain
allows attenuation of the helicopter body tremor which is generated when the helicopter has been stopped by a
sudden movement of the control stick. In the situation where the P Gain and I Gain have been made too large, the
helicopter body may oscillate if the sticks are operated by flicking them with your fingers. By increasing the D
Gain, the oscillation in the above situation will be reduced, and it will be possible to further increase the I
Gain. Care will be required, because if the D Gain is too large, small oscillations may continue, or the vibration
of the helicopter may cause sudden and severe hunting to occur.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
(In all five default profiles "Roll D gain" value is identical to "Pitch D gain" value.)

- Pitch P gain
Proportional Gain produces an regulative action on the swash plate which is proportional to the measured rate
error on the swash plate and thus proportional gain makes the elevator rate follow the rate commanded on the
swash sticks. Too high proportional gain can cause a oscillating tendency on elevator in fast forward flight and
also a bad stopping behavior on elevator rate changes. Also if this is too high, instability and hunting will
tend to occur.
Default "80" in all configurations.
With fast cyclic servos this can be increased.
(In all five default profiles "Roll P gain" value is identical to "Pitch P gain" value.)

- Pitch I gain
Integral gain is responsible that the helicopter keeps the direction under all circumstances. When wind forces
the helicopter out of its direction, the integral gain is correcting this. Fast forward flight is also stabilized
by the integral gain. Integral gain must be setup so that the helicopter stable during load changes on swash plate
. When integral gain is set to high, the stopping behavior on swash plate is influenced negatively: the helicopter
gets a tendency to slowly drift back after a hard stop. A to high integral gain has also bad influence on fast
forward flight: The elevator control feeling becomes doughy and in extreme situations even slow oscillations
(approx. 1 Hz) can appear.
With fast cyclic servos integral gain can be increased after the first flights in order to get more flight
stability.
Default settings values are from beginner "120" to extreme "60".
(In all five default profiles "Roll I gain" value is identical to "Pitch I gain" value.)

- Pitch D gain
The Derivative (D) Gain effects the helicopters behavior after a control input is suddenly released. This Gain
allows attenuation of the helicopter body tremor which is generated when the helicopter has been stopped by a
sudden movement of the control stick. In the situation where the P Gain and I Gain have been made too large, the
helicopter body may oscillate if the sticks are operated by flicking them with your fingers. By increasing the
D Gain, the oscillation in the above situation will be reduced, and it will be possible to further increase the
I Gain. Care will be required, because if the D Gain is too large, small oscillations may continue, or the
vibration of the helicopter may cause sudden and severe hunting to occur.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
(In all five default profiles "Roll D gain" value is identical to "Pitch D gain" value.)

- Acceleration
Acceleration of the roll and pitch motion.
Roll and pitch acceleration to the desired speed. When this value is high swashplate will tilt fast when stick is
moved. Default "125" in all configurations.

- Deceleration
Deceleration of the roll and pitch motion.
Roll and pitch deceleration to the desired speed or stop. When stick is returned to center it will take some time
(delay) from swash to return. It's normal on FBL helicopters and that returning speed can be controlled with this
settings. Lower the value means easier to fly, but it loses some "edge" from the controls.
Default settings values are from beginner "40" to extreme "55".

- Swash deadband RC
The deadband of the aileron and elevator sticks
The RC deadband is to ignore input from sticks that don't return to zero and to remove cross channel stick changes
when the sticks are moved to the limit on the two axises. To small a value will make it hard to do single axis
maneuvers without a change in the other axis (i.e. a flip ends up rolling left or right during the flip...).
Bigger value means that you have to move more rudder stick before anything happens.
This avoids drifting from stick pots and servo noise.
Default "40" in all configurations.

- Swash deadband gyro
The deadband of the roll and pitch sensors.
The Gyro deadband is the value used to ignore small changes coming from the gyro MEMS sensors.
This avoids drifting from gyro and servo noise. Big number results in poor stability and drift. Too small a
number can overwork your servos.
Default "4" in all configurations.

- Roll agility
It is equivalent to the maximum roll rate.
Bigger the value faster the helicopter makes rolls.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "60".

- Pitch agility
It is equivalent to the maximum pitch rate
Bigger the value faster the helicopter makes loops.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "60".

What is the effect if the Roll and Pitch P gain is set too low?

[myxiplx]

Generally speaking if your main 'P' gain is too low you'll get a very loose feeling, and will tend to have a slow wobble from side to side. Basically it's just slowly correcting itself, and meandering over to where it's meant to be.

If your gain is too high you get a much more aggressive, fast shake. In this case it's correcting much more quickly, but overshooting, and then rapidly heading back the other way.

Either way you get a wobble, but it's a very different kind of wobble :-D

[chrisleematt21]

Generally speaking if your main 'P' gain is too low you'll get a very loose feeling, and will tend to have a slow wobble from side to side. Basically it's just slowly correcting itself, and meandering over to where it's meant to be.

If your gain is too high you get a much more aggressive, fast shake. In this case it's correcting much more quickly, but overshooting, and then rapidly heading back the other way.

Either way you get a wobble, but it's a very different kind of wobble :-D

Cool thanks, trying to put a sheet together which i can take to the field with all the tuning / trouble shooting info I need and maybe get my Trex flying even nicer. When I have flown other peoples (Instructors) they seemed to fly a lot better than mine.

[nkma]

Great post John!
Don't think I ever saw such a great summary of what things are for.
Thank you for taking the time to write this down!

Regards,
Bo

[hedge]

Hey whats the issue, cant say I have done anything to my Vortex's other than adjust Tail speed and Gov (on the nitro) that's it, everything else is set to 3d then use the slider on the style wizard, works a treat on my 700s.

[chrisleematt21]

Hey whats the issue, cant say I have done anything to my Vortex's other than adjust Tail speed and Gov (on the nitro) that's it, everything else is set to 3d then use the slider on the style wizard, works a treat on my 700s.

Nothing in particular I just wondered if there was a tuning guide, that way I can have a play and see if I can improve the setup or not.

As I understand it the predefined parameters are just a good starting point.

[hedge]

Nothing in particular I just wondered if there was a tuning guide, that way I can have a play and see if I can improve the setup or not.

As I understand it the predefined parameters are just a good starting point.

Nothing wrong with that...

Have you seen these vids? They are by BertK one of the best in the business and helped Angelos with building the Vortex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0k_dTNqkdo
Spartan Vortex Setup Part 5 of 6 - Fine Tuning

Now I used to run the Align 3GX and we where stuck having to make changes to the system to get it to work and this put most people off this gyro and they just labelled it junk. Now, it was not as good as a Vortex that's for sure but equally with some tweaking it worked OK.

That said in the above vid Bert makes it clear that he does not recommend tweaking the advanced settings

Goto these time stamps and listen a bit...
4:50 onwards shows advanced menu
6:30 recommend dont touch advanced!!
9:10 has yet to tweak any of these settings
11:23 No need to mess

The other vid I like is again Bert but also Boby Watts - another legend

SmackTalk RC

Its the detailed look at flybarless again they go onto detail. But your lucky you've got one of the best on the market so tweak for fun but I would guess if you've got an real issues they will be mechanical not vortex.

Good Luck