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  • Cypher 3D - First Steps!

    After a short period away from the hobby, (approximately 20 years), I decided to re-kindle my interest in this fascinating hobby by looking for a quick, (and somewhat 'cheap and cheerful'), return by looking for something that will allow me to fly as quickly as possible.

    I decided that 'electric flight' would probably be the most favourable route and so I undertook some research, (on both this particular site as well as many other areas), and I subsequently purchased a second hand 'Cypher 3D' electric helicopter, (despite the fact that I have a brand new TRex 450 that I purchased about 10 years ago which is still awaiting its first flight)!

    I suspect that I didn't make much of a saving on my purchase but I achieved my goal of attaining a complete set up for a modest outlay, (Helicopter, Motor, Servos, Gyro, ESC, Transmitter and Receiver), and was therefore ready to go.The advert stated 'never crashed - only hovered' but I stripped the helicopter right down to its component parts and rebuilt her, (I would still have rebuilt it even if I had not noticed that the Fly-bar was bent and the landing skids broken)!

    Cutting a long story short I rebuilt the model, (fortunately it came with a multitude of spares - including a couple of Fly-bars), set up all of the midpoint servo settings, (see-saws horizontal, swash plate level in both planes, etc), and I then tentatively set up the Motor position and Tail Belt tension, (from memory of previous models - as no manuals were supplied with the model and when I did locate, and download them, there were no set up specifications anyway)!

    I then ventured to the garden in order to undertake some preliminary testing, (dynamic rotor balance, tail rotor efficiency, etc), whilst it was safely tethered to the garden table and, (once I had made a slight adjustment to the pitch setting on one rotor blade - to get them rotating in the same plane), I was ready for the first ground tests!

    When I was last flying, (some considerable time ago), Computer radios were an exception and not the norm, (I still have my trusty JR XP642), so 'electronic' mixing, throttle and pitch curves were a bit of a 'dark art'), and this was another reason why I chose the Cypher 3D package as it also included the Spektrum DX6i, (I realise that this is directly placed at the very 'cheap' end of the list of available radio sets today), and I was amazed at how the radios have developed during the past few years, (2.4Ghz, dual receivers and frequency synthesising - no more crystals!).

    I received no manual for the radio so I had to make another visit to the Interweb in order to download the manual and I also stripped the Transmitter and cleaned that too, (designing my own 'retrofit' modification to the select/thumbwheel switch which tends to be very fragile)!!

    Initially I set up very linear 'curves' just to see how the Helicopter behaved, (0, 25, 50, 75 & 100%), for both throttle and pitch, (with a collective range of +/- 8 degrees), and, (once I had increased the throttle/collective sufficiently to create positive lift the Cypher was very 'lively' with a very 'skittish' flight pattern and I also had reservations about the Gyro performance, (Futaba GY401), as the tail would jerk occasionally.

    After a few more flights, (making further adjustments to the 'curve' settings, (currently flying with throttle at 0, 45, 75, 90 & 95% and pitch at 0, 40, 65, 85 & 85%), the flight is far more stable, (I have also used the dual rate function on both elevator and aileron - 45%/100%), but I am still very wary of the tail as it still jerks, occasionally, resulting in a quick change of all other settings!

    I have checked the tail rotor, all fittings, the servo and the tail belt but there are no clues as to what is causing the problem and I still suspect the Gyro as the 'delay' pot has no 'end stop' and I suspect that the previous owner may have been a little 'heavy handed' when adjusting it, (there is a possibility that it is moving during flight - thus upsetting the initial Gyro settings)!

    Regardless of the tail issues I am very pleased with my purchase and I will now attempt to get the TRex set up, (it is fully equipped - including Gyro), so that I can compare the two together - thus identifying the cause of my jittery tail!Although no expert by any means I have been fortunate to own a number of Helicopters, (during the late 80's and early 90's), and I have fond memories of the Micromold Lark, the Schulter Heliboy, a scale Graupner Bell 212, two Kalt Cyclones, (great machines), a 'Gas Baron', (an extremely viscous machine), a Kyosho Concept 30, (it sits on the fridge awaiting its first flight), the Trex 450 and my 'cute' Cypher 3D.Apologies for the incessant ramblings!

    Martin.

  • #2
    Are you just hovering? no control inputs whatsoever and the tail kicks?

    Im not sure if those models suffered from tail belt static build up. You could ground the tail (Using or making something much like you see here)

    http://kkwait.free.fr/logo/antistatic.jpg

    In the Mikado Logo helis, static build up would cause a pretty violent tail kick every now and then, and sometimes complete shutdown of the model due to a release of static built up in the tail boom.

    Failing that, there is the obvious things. Is the tail slider shaft silky smooth with no sticking points? (pop the link of the servo and feel it first hand) are the bearings greased properly in the tail grips, and working smoothly? sometimes its hard to feel notchiness in the tail, i normally take the bearing races out of the tail grips, clean and inspect fully with a magnifying glass to look for any damage, rutting or scratches.

    Good luck with it, and a detailed description of the tail kick and circumstances around it might help us narrow it down for you.

    Welcome back to the hobby!
    NONE OF THE BELOW HELI'S ARE OWNED BY ME ANY MORE
    TT Raptor G4 + Vbar
    | MCPX V1 + HP05 Brushless & All the upgrades | 130x Stock | Henseleit TDR 2013 +Vbar | 450L DOMINATOR 6S + Mini Kbar | Logo 550SX +Vbar Mini
    Proud wearer of the EGS award!

    Comment


    • #3
      In addition to checking the tail is smooth mechanically, while you have that link off the servo, ensure the servo is moving freely for the whole range of its motion. If you feel anything unusual open it up and inspect the gears.
      Helis: Oxy 2 FE / Oxy 2 Sport / Protos 380 / Oxy 4 Max / Gaui X3 380mm
      Electronics:
      Spartan VX1e / Spartan VX1n / Spartan VX1p / MSH Brain2 mini / Jeti DS-14
      Sims: Realflight / AccuRC
      / Phoenix RC (Wireless) | AccuRC (Wireless) | Realflight (Wireless)

      Team rep for Lynx/Oxy, Founder of NightWave Systems, #450guy

      Comment


      • #4
        Welcome to the forum. You seem to be doing well.
        Tron 7.0 advance Vbar evo V Control
        Foamy plank
        icharger 3010b, Coolice 24v psu
        Member of MK Heli Club and LMAC

        Comment


        • #5
          Delarado, Myxiplx,

          Many thanks to both of you for your very prompt responses to my earlier posting.

          I am very intrigued by the possible static issue as I spent my formative years as an electronics engineer, (dealing with some very bizarre problems), so I have had previous experience of some 'esoteric' issues!!

          I will strip the tail and double check that the belt pathway is clear, (I don't believe there are any guides located within the boom - just the two pulleys close to the main reduction gear where the tail belt is driven), and I will also check the tail servo, (itself), as well as the ball links and push rods for any signs of snagging.

          I am still tempted to take the gyro apart and check the two pots as I am sure that the 'delay' pot should have an end stop, (in my first days of flying I built my own Gyro's using a small electric motor, a magnet, a 'hall effect' chip some vero-board and some old servo cables), and they worked - albeit simply!

          Otherwise, (for a very cheap Helicopter), I am very impressed with its initial capabilities and I hope to advance my skills once I can gain confidence in the tail!

          Martian.

          Comment


          • #6
            I forgot to add that I am finding this forum a very friendly and informative site so may I convey my sincere thanks, (to both the moderators and members), for the wealth of invaluable information contained within this site.

            Comment


            • #7
              Delarado,

              Apologies - I never answered your earlier question the 'kicking' can occur at any time, (whilst hovering or during translational flight), after which I have to compensate accordingly but then 'normality' returns, (for a matter of seconds/minutes), before it occurs again.

              I will strip the tail later today, (once I have finished work)!

              Thanks to everybody once again.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi mate and welcome,

                i am am brand new to the hobby and bought a 2nd hand king 2. From what am reading with my problems, never believe what you read on eBay! Anyhow, I've not had it in the air yet as it has spinning round problems which I'm taking advice on from a few guys on here. However I have to echoe your thoughts and say the forum is a very friendly place and from reading throug, there's a wealth of knowledge to be gained here. I'm not 1 for joining every site on the web so will be sticking to here as no need to go elsewhere.

                you seem to know what you're talking about so good luck and hope you get up in the air soon.

                cheers

                Tom
                • Esky Honey Bee King 2
                • Esky Honey Bee CP2
                • Hubsan x4 Mini Quad

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi and welcome to the forum. I still have (in disassembled form) a Kalt Alpha Baron gasser. I was going to sell it a while back but had a problem with the courier and it ended up staying here and then I thought about putting it back together and restoring it to a flyable state but... we shall see.

                  Regarding the tail on Cypher, if the kick is random or does not seem to be related to a change in motor speed or pitch etc then it may well be static. What is the gyro on it? I once had a static issue on a Trex 450 and I just ran a thin bit of wire from the tail case at the bearing that holds the tail shaft to the boom and then another bit of wire from the boom to a bolt on the (carbon) frame.
                  Kasama, Minicopter, Henseleit, JR, Shape, Beam
                  Robbe, RMJ Raptor gasser, powered by
                  Spartan, Spirit, BeastX, Kontronik, CY Total-G, DX8

                  member of Epsom Downs and Bloobird clubs
                  Proud recipient of 7 EGS! and a platinum star

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Trillian,

                    I always remember my 'Gas Baron' as being a bit of a handful, (although I never damaged her), but I still have fond memories of it!

                    I purchased it purely due to the fact that it required less 'support' kit at the flying field, (as compared to my glow engine models), and electric flight was in its infancy.

                    Not sure how easy it is to get hold of Kalt spares these days - as I noted a couple of Cyclones were up for sale recently.

                    Today's equivalent is, of course, the Gas Turbine models and I would love to delve into this area but can't justify the cost currently!

                    Will be stripping down the tail later, (or possibly tomorrow), in the hope of tracking down the culprit.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Given he's using a linear throttle curve i would say it's the change in rpm that's causing the kick as that's what my Trex done the first time i hovered it. Set the tail so that it's off set towards the boom (shorten the link rod) to give a couple of degrees pitch then set the limits again but as it's a 401 you can only set it to favour one way or the other. Adjust it so it's not quite binding when right rudder. If you've shortened the rod enough you should then be able to hover in rate mode. Now go back into heading hold (above 72%) & it should hold ok.

                      Here's my first hover with my Trex doing i assume what your cypher is doing

                      Last edited by p4ddy; 17-02-2015, 07:35 PM.
                      Yes the big sigpic is coming back

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Martian View Post
                        Trillian,

                        I always remember my 'Gas Baron' as being a bit of a handful, (although I never damaged her), but I still have fond memories of it!

                        I purchased it purely due to the fact that it required less 'support' kit at the flying field, (as compared to my glow engine models), and electric flight was in its infancy.

                        Not sure how easy it is to get hold of Kalt spares these days - as I noted a couple of Cyclones were up for sale recently.

                        Today's equivalent is, of course, the Gas Turbine models and I would love to delve into this area but can't justify the cost currently!

                        Will be stripping down the tail later, (or possibly tomorrow), in the hope of tracking down the culprit.
                        Kalt spares are generally very scarce. Now and then something will come up on Ebay, prob more cyclones than Barons (except for the Baron 30 and enforcer / spacebaron that are about as common as the Cyclones).

                        Mine has the more mildly tuned KG-22 but it's a light and smallish heli so ends up feeling much like a .60 nitro. I also have a Kalt 'black head' all metal rotorhead and I really should spend an afternoon and see if I can get it back together. I was never too wild about the piano wire tail drive though, I had thought about looking into replacing that with a more robust TT.

                        I'm starting to get back into gassers now and the Zenoah RC style engines combined with really good conversion kits and light airframes have made them a real viable alternative. I also always liked the whole thing of being able to just use the pull-start, not needing anything really except the TX and a charged RX pack. I know the starter unit adds a little weight but I just think it's kinda cool (and you can make them detachable).
                        Kasama, Minicopter, Henseleit, JR, Shape, Beam
                        Robbe, RMJ Raptor gasser, powered by
                        Spartan, Spirit, BeastX, Kontronik, CY Total-G, DX8

                        member of Epsom Downs and Bloobird clubs
                        Proud recipient of 7 EGS! and a platinum star

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