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**Eckchaz** · 15-02-2011, 06:35 PM

Its hard to say as it cant be totally proven.. but No one can vouch for the thinking/consideration of your HR department due to the policy of your workplace.

If you need any Employment legal advice.. Seek ACAS out. Good Luck :)

**Andy from Sandy** · 15-02-2011, 06:42 PM

The thing is were you on the phone?

Are you looking for a way to get out of this even if it means telling a lie if asked the direct question?

If you weren't on the phone and if the other guy was ranting at you for something you didn't do then you could use that as the basis of him just wanting to cause mischief out of malice.

I know nothing about employment law so can't advise you really.

**simplyraptor** · 15-02-2011, 06:42 PM

Are you in a union in your company? you can at least get some guidance through them if you are.

There doesn't appear to be a great deal of evidence against you, but unfortunately these days some companies make you guilty until proven innocent.

**gorber** · 15-02-2011, 06:43 PM

I am no expert, but I wouldn't have thought they would have a leg to stand on. It seems really unfair that they have moved to disciplinary action without firm evidence.

Even if they had records of you making a call, could they prove you hadn't parked up to make it?

The only way I could see you having a problem (that would stick) is if there were numerous witnesses, or you were stopped by a policeman.

Good luck with it Chi, and if it goes further, stand your ground.

Andrew

**C8RLS** · 15-02-2011, 06:52 PM

After the investigation meeting they have to write to you outlining the allegation made and the evidence they have which will be considered at the hearing which must be held by someone who was not involved in the investigation process.

It sounds to me like they don't have any evidence that would stand up against an employment tribunal hearing should you have to go there in the end so my advice would be do not admit to anything and if they try impose a disciplinary sanction then appeal it straight away.

In my view they are skating on thin ice...

**horsham rc** · 15-02-2011, 07:01 PM

a friend of mine worked for a telecomuncations firm and had a complaint against him for driving the van in a bad way...
he wasent liked very much in and around the firm and was sacked through the above aleged afences but he still insists it was a stick up as he was at home having lunch at the time of afence. but the firm still bootet him...somone up high justs has to say the word.. guilty intill proven utherwise

**jwatts007** · 15-02-2011, 07:02 PM

[quote=chilau;613703]Hi

Just looking for some advice and opinions.

I have received a complaint from someone through my work that I was using a phone whilst driving a company vehicle.
I remembered a bus driver at the traffic lights for that date ranting at me.

I had the investigative meeting last week and they had my company mobile records showing all outgoing calls which did not show any calls made during the alleged time. They could not get the records for my received calls.
I denied that I was on the phone at the time and also that my company vehicle is fitted with a handsfree device.

It has now gone to a disciplinary hearing with HR and my line manager.

Can they proceed with any actions if they cannot 100% prove that I was using a mobile at the time. Seems to be my word against his.

Also not sure if the person got my reg. no as the complaint reads as a oriental man driving "liveried" vehicle.

Any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated as driving whilst using a mobile phone can be gross misconduct.

Cheers[/quote]
I have know idea of the Company you work for but I am appalled at there behaviour, who on earth do they think they are to to putting you on trial like this and leaving you swinging in the wind waiting for there verdict, what a pathetic complaint against you, using a phone while driving, since when did that become a sacking offence, and who are they to punish you anyway, the only gross misconduct I see here is by them, do you really want a job with such a company, I know I wouldnt..............

**gorber** · 15-02-2011, 07:05 PM

[quote=horsham rc;613718]a friend of mine worked for a telecomuncations firm and had a complaint against him for driving the van in a bad way...
he wasent liked very much in and around the firm and was sacked through the above aleged afences but he still insists it was a stick up as he was at home having lunch at the time of afence. but the firm still bootet him...somone up high justs has to say the word.. guilty intill proven utherwise[/quote]

Your friend should have taken them to tribuneral. It would be so easy to thin out staff costs in a recession (or for any other reason) if all they had to do was make up Mickey Mouse allegations without any proof, and then sack employees as a result.

**Grant85** · 15-02-2011, 07:18 PM

[quote=jwatts007;613719]I have know idea of the Company you work for but I am appalled at there behaviour, who on earth do they think they are to to putting you on trial like this and leaving you swinging in the wind waiting for there verdict, [B]what a pathetic complaint against you[/B], using a phone while driving, since when did that become a sacking offence, and who are they to punish you anyway, the only gross misconduct I see here is by them, do you really want a job with such a company, I know I wouldnt..............[/quote]

In my opinion not at all pathetic. I totally frown upon anyone driving whilst using a mobile :( afterall it is very cheap these days to get a hands free kit ;) I'm not at all saying here that Chilau is guilty of this I'm just looking at it from the perspective as if he had been using one. Would you be still saying the same if someone you knew was run down by a selfish driver using a mobile phone? I'm not having a dig here I'm just pointing out how serious this can be.

This guy may very well be not guilty if so then what does he have to worry about? Losing his job? If so then he can take it to a tribunal as they will have[B] NO[/B] Evidence if he is not guilty ;)

If it was me and I was NOT guilty of said allegation then I would seriously be questioning why I am working for a firm that doesn't believe me in the first place and I would be looking for another job very promplty as this sounds like a company I wouldn't want to be apart of if they are taking the word from some Joe public who has no evidence??

Cheers Grant.:cheers2:

**chilau** · 15-02-2011, 07:22 PM

Thanks for the replys

My line manager did try and get the allegation thrown out and just have me put on a toolbox training course.
Its because the complaint went through HR that it has gotten to this stage, they wanted to go stright to disciplinary without an investigative meeting.

I'm not 100% sure that I wasn't on the phone or maybe had the phone in my hand at the time as I have recently had my father pass away and the day before the incident I had been to see him in the chapel of rest so the following day was a bit fuzzy.

Only way to be sure for definite is to get my work received phone calls records. I did check my phone record list for received calls for the date and it didn't show any calls which is why I think I was not on the ohone and that the complaint was exaggerated.

My line manager is aware of all these circumstances as well and did try their hardest to get it thrown out but once it has gone through HR they have to be seen to be following company procedure.

My company policy does state that using a mobile phone whilst driving can be seem as gross misconduct.

I'll have to see if HR are on my side in the disciplinary but it looks like they just see things as black and white.

**Mart61** · 15-02-2011, 07:27 PM

[quote=Evo Andy;613711]The thing is were you on the phone?

Are you looking for a way to get out of this even if it means telling a lie if asked the direct question?[/quote]

Thereby hangs the question.

Do you have a personal phone that you may have used?

**pgkevet** · 15-02-2011, 07:28 PM

From my employer viewpoint the employee has all the advantages when it comes to dismissals for misconduct unless the situation is proven beyond doubt.
So here it rests on whether the OP was using a phone - doesn't have to have been a company phone..could be personal, wife's etc,, and what evidence there is that he was.

If the only evidence is one persons unsubstantiated complaint then dismissal is an unsafe action UNLESS there have been lots of logged prior complaints related to driving poorly or making personal calls on company time AND those complaint were followed up with investigations and warnings.

I posted that before the OP's recent msg... which honestly I read as 'I may well have used a mobile phone while driving..even if not on that ocassion' :-(

**chilau** · 15-02-2011, 07:32 PM

[quote=pgkevet;613745]From my employer viewpoint the employee has all the advantages when it comes to dismissals for misconduct unless the situation is proven beyond doubt.
So here it rests on whether the OP was using a phone - doesn't have to have been a company phone..could be personal, wife's etc,, and what evidence there is that he was.

If the only evidence is one persons unsubstantiated complaint then dismissal is an unsafe action UNLESS there have been lots of logged prior complaints related to driving poorly or making personal calls on company time AND those complaint were followed up with investigations and warnings.

I posted that before the OP's recent msg... which honestly I read as 'I may well have used a mobile phone while driving..even if not on that ocassion' :-([/quote]

No I haven't had any complaints about driving etc in the 5 years that I've been with the company.

**gorber** · 15-02-2011, 07:34 PM

Sorry to hear about your father.

Don't pass on your uncertainty to HR or your line manager. It is for them to prove you are guilty. Stand your ground.

Another example of HR being a total waste of space. I see them having meetings in our office (the meeting rooms have glass walls). They have all sorts of crap up on their powerpoint presentations with power wank words and charts. It is the only time I ever see them, so it is all rhetoric.

Ba$tards.

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