Taking Photos of Children at School

[Steve]

A couple years ago at my Son's very first nativity play when he was just 3, we went along as dutiful parents, got all gushy-eyed and took some great photos.... ah the memories

The following year (last year), we went to the same event at the same school and the teacher announced at the beginning of the show that taking photos was not allowed under data protection rules. This made me bleedin' angry, but I suffered in silence and put up with it.

Last week, there was an announcement (I heard about it on the 8am Radio 2 news while driving to work) that schools basically weren't allowed to say this - see here for a summary -> [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11945081]BBC News - Nativity photos not against law, says data watchdog[/url]

This was great news as it was both my 5 year old Son's and now my 2 year old Daughter's Christmas shows on Friday last week, so perfect timing. Went to the little girl's show in the morning at the same school as my Son went to last year and the same teacher said the same thing about not taking photos. With my camera in one hand and a printed copy of the press release from the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) in the other, I instantly challenged her on this from the audience and then proceeded to take a good few photos of my daughter in her show. Great!

We then went to my Son's do in the afternoon, where his new school actively encouraged photo taking so even more happy days without any need for a conforntation.

I now seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest at my daughter's school with various opinions being thrown about at the school gates, the teacher who made the announcement in tears and meetings being called at the school. I know this because my wife walked right into the middle of it when she dropped our girl off at school this morning.

I have this evening written a long and detailed email to the head teacher of the school with reference to the above link, and several other links to files including the press release from the ICO and the guidance notes, also provided by the ICO, all of which say that pictures taken for personal use are not covered by the Data Protection Act.

I've attached two relevant files here for your consideration.

What's the consensus of opinion? Am I right or wrong?

One other thing to note - many of you will already know that both of my children are products of the social care system, so we are painfully aware of risks to information and security etc.

I'll shut up now before I go off on a rant on the subject. :ack2:

[Biggles]

Each school will have their own policy regarding photo's being taken.

It basically comes down to how the school percieves their duty of care.

Schools require parental permission for photos of their child/children to be taken and if this is refused then no photos may be taken by the school.

How would you feel if someone took some pictures of your children and then photoshopped them etc and sold em to some weirdo, who then posted them onto a discusting website???

Who is then liable???? My bet is that you would probably head straight for the school to complain etc.

The digital camera is a wonderful thing but in the wrong hands can cause so much grief.

This is the sick world we live in I am affraid.


I understand where you are coming from but please understand where a school is coming from.


Oh yeah and you were bang out of order for doing that infront of the audience, you should have asked and challenged this well before the event.

[debrooker]

sorry to hear about this.

I was at my eldest's (3 years) xmas party show today and everyone was taking photos and videos and no-one batted an eye lid. I can only say, that i would be mightily peeved if anyone suggested that I turn the camera off

[Steve]

[quote=Biggles;576212]How would you feel if someone took some pictures of your children and then photoshopped them etc and sold em to some weirdo, who then posted them onto a discusting website???[/quote]

Good post, but on the above point, yes of course I'd be upset but how would I ever know that this had happened? Would the photo taker, the editor, the seller or the buyer be stupid enough to drop me a line and tell me what they'd done? If someone I know found the picture on the website, would they tell me - what does that say about their web viewing habits and would they want to admit it? And besides, I'd know it to be a fake so would get over it and move on, surely?

[Biggles]

The second point is.... as kids go to secondary school (and cameras cause even more grief there). They tend to end up on facebook (kids get hold of pictures and doctor them themselves) with some nasty remark. Seen this so many times.

It's a tough one but thats why kids phones are confiscated at the beginning of the day and they get them back at the end of the day.

I know this is slightly off the original post but can you see what I mean about when pictures get to the outside world then some really crappie things happen with them.

I am affraid it is only one of those problems that will never ever be solved.

Ho hum

[Steve]

[quote=Biggles;576223]The second point is.... as kids go to secondary school (and cameras cause even more grief there). They tend to end up on facebook (kids get hold of pictures and doctor them themselves) with some nasty remark. Seen this so many times.

It's a tough one but thats why kids phones are confiscated at the beginning of the day and they get them back at the end of the day.

I know this is slightly off the original post but can you see what I mean about when pictures get to the outside world then some really crappie things happen with them.

I am affraid it is only one of those problems that will never ever be solved.

Ho hum[/quote]

I do know what you mean, but what about 'innocent until proven guilty'?

And what about my memories as a parent? After all, that's all I'm after here. In 5, 10, 20 or more years time I want to have the memories of my children as toddler's preserved.

[Biggles]

[quote=Steve;576226]I do know what you mean, but what about 'innocent until proven guilty'?

And what about my memories as a parent? After all, that's all I'm after here. In 5, 10, 20 or more years time I want to have the memories of my children as toddler's preserved.[/quote]

I can totally understand where you are coming from there.


As to innocent until proven guilty, that could be countered by prevention is better than cure. :cheers2:

The problem is not you or me as responsible parents but the few that spoil it for the many.

[Kozmyk]

Good on you Steve for standing up and being counted.

None of this PC nonsense makes a jot of difference to the safety and security of children.
It's just civil servants playing CYA.
Instead of putting the decision at the school's discretion they should be given a directive.

Sure there are sickos in the world; always have and always will be.
Stopping parents from taking snaps at their kid's Nativity plays isn't going to stop that.

Don't listen to anyone that tells you that you were out of order.
Stick up for what you believe in whenever and wherever you feel the need.

[Mark_T]

100% behind you here, I've been fighting a personal campaign against people and authorities misquoting the DPA as an excuse for a long time now.

This is just misinformed over-protection to no useful purpose.

[SteveH39]

I clicked on the files above and Avast Anti virus had a barney, there is an exploit attached to the 2nd file, fortunately it aborted the connection. Can someone check and or remove said files?

JS.Pdfka-gen.expl was the name of the file.

[Mart61]

I've not read your attachments Steve. However, having been a keen amateur tog for a few years, any property owner (or their duly appointed managers) can impose whatever restrictions they like regarding photography whilst you are on their premises.

Whilst it might be wrong to claim data protection, child protection or whatever, IMHO the teacher would have been well within her rights to have told you that the only reason she didn't want you taking pictures was because she said so.

Assuming she was acting with the authority of the head teacher, you would have been in the wrong had you continued.

EDIT: Having now read the attachments, the first one makes the following statement:

[I]"Where the Act does apply, a common sense approach suggests that [U][B]if the photographer asks for permission to take a photograph[/B][/U], this will usually be enough to ensure compliance."
[/I]
The section underlined highlights the need to seek permission and, in any case of seeking permission, the individuals with the right to grant permission also have the right to deny the request, surely?

[stumpe]

I agree with your stance as the school is wrong on deciding it's own rules, I for one wouldn't care about what the headteacher thinks or says, she is basically wrong and they have been for years.

I have an 18 month little boy and can't wait to see his first play and will certainly be taking my camera with me no matter what the school has said

Lee

[sacko]

You need to check with you LEA guidelines. Here is how KCC stand;

[quote]10. Parental right to take photographs
Parents are not covered by the Data Protection Act 1998 if they are taking photographs or making a video recording for their own private use. The Act does not, therefore, stop parents from taking photographs or making video recordings at school events, such as nativity plays.

Revised guidance issued by KCC March 2009
Parents are not permitted, however, to take photographs or to make a video recording for anything other than their own personal use (e.g. with a view to selling videos of a school event). Recording and/or photographing other than for private use would require the consent of the other parents whose children may be captured on film. Without this consent the Data Protection Act 1998 would be breached. The consent form attached reminds parents of this fact.

Data Protection considerations aside, it is possible to consider banning all filming / recording / photography of school productions, sports days etc. if you feel that this is appropriate. We believe that many parents would consider it to be over-cautious to impose such a ban and we would not recommend this course of action. Should you wish to impose any such ban we would advise you to take legal advice in order to ensure that the correct steps are taken, whilst acknowledging that such a ban would be difficult to enforce.
See Primary Headteacher’s draft letter in appendix

The important thing is to be sure that people with no connection with your school do not have any opportunity to film covertly. Ask your staff to quiz anyone they do not recognise who is using a camera or video recorder at events and productions and include this instruction in your consent form or any event tickets.[/quote]

This is the [B]guideline [/B]that we abide by. I must stress though, that this is only a guideline and it would be a decision made by the Head or Pastoral team.

The school may have imposed the ban on cameras due to a student suffering from severe migranes, photosensitive epilepsy, seizures, but didnt want to embaress the student in front of an audience so quoted the DPA.

Imo, it was a mistake to take those shots.

[Balders]

Had my son's first nursery "sing-along" yesterday...I was taking hi-def video and the missus was taking as many photos as her camera could hold :) Just about everyone watching was snapping away, and we were talking about swapping photos with other parents after the event.

I would say, if anyone is worried about paedo's and doctoring/selling of photo's etc, I'm sure anyone of that "frame of mind" will be determined enough to get their own photos and not have to rely on the ones proud parents have taken.

[Skipper Billy]

I have to say that whilst your motives may well have been right and proper - there is a time and a place and a way of getting results and that challenging the teacher in front of the audience without forewarning her fits none of those requirements.

How can we complain that children have lost respect for people in positions of authority (Police/teachers etc) if their parents openly demonstrate the same behaviour.

Monkey see - Monkey do!