LENDING OUT

[mo]

Hi Chaps.
In the post second hand heli's beware, the subject of loaning your machine to other people was brought up.
I felt I had to write a comment on that, for it is a subject that is very close to me at this time.
I was flying with just one other heli exponent at our field yesterday, and he was a learner who was unfortunately having a lot of trouble with the tuning of the engine in the Hawk Sport that he was flying, he was just managing to get the heli about 3 feet into the hover when it would run out of steam and drop down again.
It was eventually found that the main needle had stripped the thread and he had to give up for the day, which after all the build up for that days enjoyment we all know is so very frustrating.
I had my mornings fly and he stood next to me watching the performance, I always run the tank dry in flight to save having to pump out at the end of the day, and noticing there was about a quarter tank left, felt sorry for him and asked him if he would like to have a go of my Moskito.
He was hesitant, but his desire overcame his caution and he accepted my proffered ff9, I told him not to go too high and with very slow and precise actions he raised my old and trusty heli into a nice stable hover.
He managed a few very enjoyable minuets hovering my heli about, with just a couple of warnings from me to keep her low, until I took over again for that dry tank auto.
I know that this was the first time he had flown a helicopter without training under cart attached, and in fact had only be learning a very short time, and as you can guess he was delighted with his achievement.
I was obviously very worried at the time, and was greatly relieved it had ended with my heli still in one piece.
Back to the question of lending your heli for other people to fly, my only answer to this one must be a resounding NO.
If you offer, then you are responsible for any damage that could come from this act. If you are asked and comply with the request for someone else to fly your heli, you are still the responsible person.
After I had come home and thought about what I had done, I could only come to the conclusion that I was a prime idiot, and this was not to be recommended to anyone.
Would I do this again, unfortunately YES, for I have always been a sucker for punishment?
GOOD FLYING.
Mo.

[Jamez]

To scared

I have only been flying nitro for 2 weeks, but micro for 7 months, I would be too scared to fly somebody else's nitro (I am still scared of my own, cause if I crash it the wife won't let me fix it!!!!!). I have flown my mates Micro but only breifly, and handed back the radio saying "I can't do it, what if......" so it kinda works both ways realy.

where do you fly mo? i could do with a little practice without the fear of crashing my mossie as well.......

[G-DAVE]

Hi Mo
If your refering to my post on "Swapping Models " then you have the wrong end of the stick .
The swapping was not done on a meeting basis it was a perminent swap for a period of say the Summer..In other words you ran the Models as if it was your own maintanence and repairs inc.
What your talking about is giving someone a go at the field - different contract -in this area if you offer someome a go of your helicopter the repair is on you should the worst happen . If you ask someone to test fly your model for you the repair is on you again . That's why I never offer to fly someone elses kit - they have to do the asking, then I'm happy to oblige.
I can't see the semi-perminent swap thing happening today - when we did it the people involved had been close friends for a long time before the heli thing started plus none of the heli's were worth much- can't see people swapping Gas turbines for a Raptor 30's !! Can you .
Dave

[kiwipilot]

I would be dead against the idea as well, simply because I couldn't be sure that the heli would be maintained to my standards.

It's a bit like lending out your car for 3 months.
If the water runs low or your oil leaked out and wasn't checked then it's not the immediate effects, but the knock-on effects (more costly parts/maintenance) that would affect you.

[mo]

Hi Dave.
Like yourself I am old enough to realize what you were on about, and no reference was intended to your post.
As you have correctly stated, that sort of thing stays in the past and could not be made to work today.
My post was just my opinion in borrowing or lending helicopters for others to fly, this can be likened to lending a pound, which as the saying goes, can be the quickest way to losing a friend.
In general I would not recommend the practice to anyone, and consider myself foolhardy to have done this, It was just that at the time I felt sorry for the chap, for my memory is still clear on how I used to feel when everything went pear shaped.
No harm was done and I feel good about it now, if things had turned out differently and he had incurred me some expense, I would have rightly accepted full responsibility without question.
My greatest wish now, is that the next time I see him at the field his heli is back in good flying order.
GOOD FLYING.
Mo.

[G-DAVE]

Hi kiwipilot,
That's where I'm lucky -I've been flying with the same group of lads for the last 20 years, we know who to lend things to and who not.
Hope you all can be as lucky in your flying lifetime.
Dave

[chappers]

swap you my craptor for your fury gasser for a while dave?

[mo]

Hello Dave.
I do not know if you can remember? I think it was about a year or two ago, that a chap took a friend through the courts to reclaim money for the damage that was sustained to his helicopter when it was being sounded out for him.
Even though the friend was test flying with the owners permission, the judge ruled that he was responsible to repay the cost of the damage.
At the time this ruling caused quite a bit of controversy, for it meant that if you sounded out another persons aircraft, if for any reason it ended with a crash, then the one with the controlling transmitter would be held liable for the cost of the repair.
I still prefer to go along with my original statement, that if you ask someone to fly you pride and joy, you have only yourself to blame if it all ends in tears.
As for flying another persons model,if I did happen to fly another persons model, and for some reason I damaged the thing, I could only hope they did not sue me, for with the above ruling you would be held accountable.
GOOD FLYING.
Mo.

[Jamez]

Its all about good will

Its all about good will, being a novice and having done some work on my shuttle, I fly it for 30 seconds or so, thought something didn't feel right, so asked my freindly expert to help, so he did and after thrashing around the field for 3 hours..... not realy, he flew her, re trimmed her, and handed back the radio, and one much more confident novice doing what he loves, safe in the knowledge that the heli is set up correctly. He was lending me the benefit of his expertise I was not lending him my heli. as a beginner this is priceless. Not sure about long term lending though! and would not let someone I didn't know them or there abilites fly her.

[spacebaron]

A responsible experienced pilot should check the machine and if in doubt should refuse to fly.

Its a tough call and I guess it all depends on the situation - I will only fly someone else's machine if I've been the one setting it up (or I know the person who set it up well) - Apart from the issue of crashing, I've seen a number of close calls with models (including a plane that crashed into the pits at Epsom) to realise that people can get seriously hurt through mechanical failures/errors and I would frown on any pilot who simply grabs someone else's control and starts thrashing an unproven model around.

i guess you want want to be anywhere near me when i finally get to fly my mossie..

[Raptorite]

This is an interesting debate, and one that has come up in the past following an article in one of the BMFA new's about the court case.

My view is that if I am asked to test fly a model for someone, I do so because they have requested it and therefore the onus is firmly placed upon them for responsibility if anything goes wrong. That said, I am always very careful about flying a model that I don't know or haven't first gone through carefully to make sure all is well.

There are times when there is no way of predicting a failure, particularly in the case of the less easy to spot radio problems. I say this because I was test flying a model for someone a year or two ago and the crystal failed. It had a PPM receiver so didn't have anything in the way of a failsafe. Fortunately I was hovering the model a good distance from the pits and had just given it an left cyclic command I think so it just kept going that direction until it was knife edge and dropped into the ground from about 4 foot up. The damage wasn't that bad but the owner was happy to take full responsibility for it, saying simply that he was glad it failed when I was flying it instead of him.

On some occaisons, such as tail rotor failures, in more experienced hands it is possible to bring the model down in one piece with no damage other than the failed component. In that case the beginner having their model test flown should be grateful that the repair bill will be much less than it would have been had they been flying their own model when the component failed.


Cheers,

Pete.

[Stuart]

I personally have to go with the opinion that if you ask you pay. Only a couple of people at the club have flown mine. I don't believe it just relates to flying if you borrow gear at the field and wreck it and I have told hands up for a couple of starter shafts which I did replace.

[G-DAVE]

How about when you have set a model up and successfully flown it for someone and they later crash - has he got grounds to sue.
Dave