BMFA B test problems

[nightstalker]

Hi all

I got an email from my club about Any pilot who took their B test after the 6th Oct 2007 will not be able to fly in any AHA public events or contests, until this issue is resolved.
Apparently its about some disagreement on the safety of the hovering M maneuver between the BMFA and AHA.


Does anyone know anything else about this?? will the M be scrapped and replaced??

Just want to know as i have been thinking of learning the B test but will be waste if they go and scrap the M and do something else


cheers


steve

[Ade_Law]

Whats the meaning behind the date? Why are B before this date ok?

[robgt]

The hovering M has been scrapped and replaced...
The issue was down to parts of the manoeuvre needing to be flown "behind" you - i.e. hovering slightly behind the "line" on which you're standing in order to hover the heli on that line to each side of yourself.

The replacement manoeuvre keeps the heli in front of the line but involves several takeoffs and landings while you rotate yourself around (standing on the same spot though) to get the heli on your left and right sides in order to hover it.

There was a note about this in either the BMFA mag, or in one of the heli mags recently.
Cheers,
Rob

[Disc]

Its on the BMFA website somewhere...

But the hovering 'M' had been replaced...

4 point hover is in its place...

[moyesboy]

Too right! If you haven't flown a hovering M accurate to plus or minus 6 inches your heli is sure to crash into a crowd of onlookers while you helplessly thrash the Tx sticks in confusion!

The exact selection of manoevres you demonstate is hardly critical to the safe flying standard of the pilot - I'd sooner see a wide selection of manoevres from which the instructor selects 4-5 at random for you to fly - so you have to be able to fly, say, 20 different manoevres recognisably, not particularly precisely but definitely safely.

It could even be up to the pilot to put together a display flight containing 5 manoevres out of a selection list - and then to demonstrate the flight to the examiner.
After all the B is often regarded as a display license. The manoevres in it (with or without the M) would be the most boring display ever.

Any organisation that cuts off the qualification path for new pilots even temporarily must be run by a load of old gimmers. To do so retrospectively they must be **** stained old gimmers.

Charmouth doesn't need a B only an A - so is that not a public AHA event then? Do the AHA F3C events have any spectators? or any public interest?

[Disc]

Charmouth is a Fly in.... Where club and county members come together and fly.

General public are not generally there and its not a display just a gathering of heli flyers.

[pchristy]

The problem is that without the "M", there is nothing in the test that checks a pilot's ability to fly other than directly in front of him. Most pilots have a problem as they bring the model back in line with their shoulders, on one side or the other.

Right handed pilots usually get wobbly over the left shoulder, and vice-versa.

For public events, the organiser need to know that the pilot can maintain adequate control of his model, wherever he may be required to fly it.

For AHA events, it is a requirement that the pilot "walks" the model out from the start box to the contest area (FAI rules). Most pilots try and keep themselves between the model and the judges for safety reasons, which gets the model close to this position.

The problem with the "M" wasn't so much with the manoeuvre itself, as with some clubs trying to do it in unsuitable locations, resulting in the model flying backwards towards the pit area.

Someone complained to Areas Council that the maoeuvre was therefore "unsafe", and Areas Council ordered that it should be removed from the test immediately.

The problem was that the replacement manoeuvre (4-point pirouette) didn't test the same criteria, so the AHA - not unreasonably - said it could no longer accept "B" certs that didn't include the "M" - or a suitable substitute.

Then Tech Council ordered that all "B" cert tests be suspended until the new manoeuvre was in place to prevent the issuing of "inadequate" certificates.

This had the desired effect of concentrating a few minds, and a new manoevre was quickly introduced.

It requires a fair bit of faffing about, and takes longer than the old "M", but at least it stops a very small number of clubs from having "safety issues"!

--
Pete

PS: The new manoeuvre has been in place for some weeks now, and because of the prompt action of the Tech Council, the AHA never needed to introduce its ban on new "B" certs.

[Ade_Law]

i dont think this affect many pilots only the AHA comps and nobody goes to those :-)

<ducks from a pete christy left hook>

Ade

[pchristy]

No need to duck, Ade!

It only affects those wishing to fly at F3C contests and more importantly, those wishing to fly at public events!

Having been at events where stray dogs - and even once a small child - have run out into the active flying area, I can assure you that you never know what to expect! And you need to be able to demonstrate that you keep things under control, even if required to fly in unfamiliar positions (whilst the marshalls round up the offending animal/kid)!

Its a bit like demonstrating you can cope with an engine failure on take-off in a full-size aircraft - you hope you'll never have to do it, but you need to demonstrate you CAN do it to get your license!

Cheers,

--
Pete

[robgt]

Most pilots have a problem as they bring the model back in line with their shoulders, on one side or the other.

I think thats the major issue really...
In my view, you shouldn't fly up to, and just over, the line that you're standing on (through your shoulders) - you should always fly in front of it. It could well be that the tail rotor gets to just about touch the line you stand on, but the heli should always be completely forward of that line, IMO.
If that were the case, I can't see why the hovering M couldn't have been modified slightly to stop the requirement of it being flown to a point just behind the line. Fly it wider, and fly it close to the line, but not over it. It shows control, it shows side-on orientation, and it's safe.

I guess it's all a moot point now - but the new move seems like a bit of a faff to me.
Cheers,
Rob

[robgt]

Pete, I'm curious,
Why does the AHA think it's safer to fly out of the starting box rather than carrying the model out like the 3D comps do?

Cheers,
Rob

[Steve]

And I've been practising the 4 point pirouette since this was first mentioned a few months ago. Doh!

What's the new replacement manoeuvre please?

[Ashley Davis]

my favourite unexpected event was having a swan fly at my heli. No idea what it was thinking but I had to get out the way or it would have ploughed straight through it.
So I now don't take any A or B seriously unless the person can demonstrate the ability to miss a giant stuffed swan being thrown at their heli

[jiberjaber]

my favourite unexpected event was having a swan fly at my heli. No idea what it was thinking but I had to get out the way or it would have ploughed straight through it.
So I now don't take any A or B seriously unless the person can demonstrate the ability to miss a giant stuffed swan being thrown at their heli

LOL

[Rainman]

And I've been practising the 4 point pirouette since this was first mentioned a few months ago. Doh!

What's the new replacement manoeuvre please?

As far as I am aware, the 4 point pirouette is still in the B test.

The old hovering M is replaced with 2 manouvers. The 4 point pirouette and the hokey-cokey.....sorry Pilots Pirouette.

Pete Christy and I will never see eye to eye on this one but after a lot of wrangling a compromise sems to have been reached


Richard