Should I get a new ESC

[aamacgregor]

So, some of you may know that I have a V1 Esky Belt-CP (450 size) that I am trying to make reasonably flyable (as stock it isn't easy to fly). When stock, it had a really bad rate-only gyro and a slow analogue tail servo. I now have a nice head-holding gyro, but needed to upgrade the analogue micro tail servo, so I bought a Hitec 5084mg servo (fair bit bigger than the original analogue servo). Having fitted the gyro and the Hitec tail servo, I have noticed that the built in BEC on the ESC seems to be struggling, and as a result the ESC is getting fairly hot just supplying power to the servos (main motor disconnected), or more specifically, when powering the tail servo (as I haven't moved the cyclic sticks). When I say fairly hot, I mean it is hot, but I can still touch it... kind of like touching the side of a mug full of hot coffee hot - not when the water is fresh out the kettle, but when it has been sitting in the mug for a few minutes. It gets that hot after a couple of minutes of rotating the helicopter back and forth 20 degrees or so at a rate of around 2Hz (i.e. so that the gyro is constantly telling the tail servo to move to compensate).

The fact that it is getting that hot just giving out to the tail servo is a bit of a concern to me. My worry is that when powering the cyclic servo's and the motor as well, the ESC could get so hot that it flakes out which would be bad news. The spec on the ESC is 25A with a 2A BEC. I expect I probably need to get a new ESC that at least has a 3A BEC on it, but I'm not entirely sure - is the temperature hike I am describing OK? If you think a new ESC is in order, could you suggest a cheap ESC that would do the job?

Would one of these do?

Alturn ACS-55A+HS 55 Amp Aircraft Brushless ESC with Heat Shrink - ACS55

It is a cheap helicopter so I don't want to be spending a lot on it.

Thanks,

Andrew

[cjcj1949]

I'd get a separate BEC. You disconnect the 5V red wire from the esc to the rx. They are under £10. There are two types of BEC. Linear ones and Switching. The switching BECS do not get hot. They are called SBEC or UBEC. The will work at higher voltages, something to check. I used a cheap analogue servo when learning on my Twister Storm and found it ok for learning to hover. You might also find that using the gyro in analogue mode will keep the esc cooler. Check that nothing is binding and if possible measure the standing current. When the heli is flying there should be a good flow of cooling air to keep the temperature of the esc down. If not then move it where there is. The Assan GA250 is a good cheap servo. vailable from HobbyKing UK for under £10.

[aamacgregor]

I'd get a separate BEC. You disconnect the 5V red wire from the esc to the rx. They are under £10. There are two types of BEC. Linear ones and Switching. The switching BECS do not get hot. They are called SBEC or UBEC. The will work at higher voltages, something to check. I used a cheap analogue servo when learning on my Twister Storm and found it ok for learning to hover. You might also find that using the gyro in analogue mode will keep the esc cooler. Check that nothing is binding and if possible measure the standing current. When the heli is flying there should be a good flow of cooling air to keep the temperature of the esc down. If not then move it where there is. The Assan GA250 is a good cheap servo. vailable from HobbyKing UK for under £10.

Thanks for your advice, I think I'll follow it and get a switching BEC. The Hitec 5084mg servo that I have is a digital servo, and the head holding gyro that I have does not support analogue. I will make sure that there is no binding going on though since I am a little surprised that a 2A BEC is getting that hot driving a single servo - so perhaps there is some binding going on.

Thanks,

Andrew

[cjcj1949]

This is the one I've used for a while.

UBEC 3A XQ Overlander Range | Overlander Batteries

There's a difference of opinion on whether to leave the ferrite ring on. On a 450 if the heli is far enough for it to maybe make a difference you won't be able to control it anyway. It's a common mode filter, not a standard choke, by the way. I used to use it but I've taken it off. Leave it on if you believe the manufacturer knows best. If you do take it off check the range before and after. My telemetry says 100% signal quality and my rx works at least down to 0%. The numbers may mean something, but are best used as a comparison.

Overlander or Overtec have been around a long time and have a good name.

[Guest]

The standard ESC is inadaquate, I replaced the ESKY ESC with a TURNIGY Plush 40amp Speed Controller
Be careful that the ESC you use has a soft or supersoft start, some of the aircraft ESC's dont have this vital feature.
I have changed all the electronics on a Belt CPX in a bid to make it more flyable as well as the Xtreme metal upgrades to the head.
The one item that worked the best was replacing the RX. I now use my Hitec Aurora 9 transmitter with the dual rates set to 55%.

[aamacgregor]

Thank you very much both of you. I like the idea of having an external BEC, although I also realise that the standard ESC isn't great. However, my main issue with the stock ESC is the built in BEC, therefore, I think for the moment I'll follow cjcj1949's advice and get the Overlander UBEC and if the ESC is still giving me issues, I'll upgrade the ESC. I don't think the Esky ESC has a soft start (maybe it does but I cant remember it having one), therefore, I'll change the throttle curve on my TX to give it a ramp up to 80% at zero pitch (a throttle curve something like 0-40-80-80-80) at which point I'll be able to set my idle up switch to have a 100-90-80-90-100 in the other position. That will mean I can manually make a soft start by slowly bringing the stick to 50% before hitting the idle up switch... at least that is the plan.

CPN, I changed the RX to a Spektrum AR6200 a couple of months ago and now use my DX7s to control the thing - I expect that will make a good difference, but I haven't flown the Belt-CP since I crashed it a few years ago. I haven't added any expo yet, but I guess that might be an idea. Just curious, have you changed the cyclic servos yet? If so, what servos do you use now? From what I have heard, the servos on the CPX are much better than those on the original Belt-CP (mine are really slow), so I guess you might not have needed to change them. I think I'll live with the stock ones for the moment until I get it in the air to assess whether or not I need to change them (I'm only planning on gentle flights with it).

The funny thing is in all this, in the back of my mind I have the thought that if the Belt-CP still doesn't fly well after getting the BEC, then I might be better scrapping it and picking up a T-REX 450 or a Mini Protos or something, or maybe even just a Blade 130X... but perhaps that is because I don't have a lot of confidence in the Belt-CP. Maybe it is a better helicopter than I think - I couldn't really say, since when I crashed it, I had no idea how to fly it. However, this time, I should be in a better position to judge - I can fly my mCPX and Nano CPX around fine, so hopefully the Belt-CP should be OK too.

[Zero]

Hi, if you can fly the belt cp you can fly anything, it is one of the most difficult helicopters to fly. The best and least frustrating way forward would be for you to buy a quality helicopter like the T-Rex and to buy as big as your budget will allow. The bigger the easier they are to fly, however the crash costs increase the bigger you go.

The 130X is also a good option, however the tail has not in MHO been sorted out properly yet. Spares were a huge problem for the 130 but they seem to be more readily available.

[aamacgregor]

I have a Gaui X5 FES (550 size), but I'm frightened to fly the thing, since I'm worried that I'm not good enough yet and flying it could be an expensive way to find out. I've been told it's an uber stable machine, but extremely responsive (it has a very high power to weight ratio). Guess I could put a lot of expo on the TX and give it a whirl.

My plan was to fly my helicopters from smallest to largest in the hope that by the time I get to the X5 that I'll be confident that I'll be able to fly it without crashing it. Unfortunately, I didn't take into account that the Belt-CP is going to be a pig to fly.... I'm going to attempt to fly it anyway though as soon as the BEC arrives. After that, I'll try the X5.

[dani_r]

Should I get a new ESC

I have a Gaui X5 FES (550 size), but I'm frightened to fly the thing, since I'm worried that I'm not good enough yet and flying it could be an expensive way to find out. I've been told it's an uber stable machine, but extremely responsive (it has a very high power to weight ratio). Guess I could put a lot of expo on the TX and give it a whirl.

My plan was to fly my helicopters from smallest to largest in the hope that by the time I get to the X5 that I'll be confident that I'll be able to fly it without crashing it. Unfortunately, I didn't take into account that the Belt-CP is going to be a pig to fly.... I'm going to attempt to fly it anyway though as soon as the BEC arrives. After that, I'll try the X5.

Mmmmmm X5 goodness! Looooovely machine. Get it in the air! You won't look back

[aamacgregor]

Mmmmmm X5 goodness! Looooovely machine. Get it in the air! You won't look back

I hope to pluck up the courage this side of Christmas.

[cjcj1949]

It's not really like that. Bigger is definitely not easier. Not unless you can disregard the cost of crashing. Small is theoretically more difficult to fly, but the mcpx has proved that fear is the main factor. The other part is that you have no hope anyway until you can stop thinking. I would go for a cheap 450 clone. You won't be bothered about crashing it. I haven't seen any really slow servos but good enough servos for geting used to a crashable heli are around £6 to £8 and a gyro for the same cost. You can do the whole breakable stuff for around £100. The emax servos are reasonable. You have most of the kit anyway. Do start from scratch again, use a training undercarraige and just go back to hops. Then progress slowly until you can hover for as long as you like tail in and can land ok. The main thing is to know what the heli will do when you control it, before it happens. Then you are in charge and not the heli. You'll also be able to allow for gusts of wind knowing you can get it back under control. Do use lots of expo and rates. This makes more difference than anything else and make sure you have a good headspeed for hovering. £10 motors are ok too from Giant Shark. Do use cheap main blades either glass fibre or carbon. Treat it as a heli designed to be crashable.

When you can handle the 450 you'll be able to manage the bigger, judging by other people's comments.

Have a look at Vikki's posts. She went mcpx, 450, then bigger. I think her greatest leap was the 450. I know I found going from the msr to the 450 difficult.

Once you can fly the clone long enough for bits to wear out rather than break by crashing, it will be worth getting a good heli. Do get a clone with a carbon fibre frame. They survive fairly well.

The bigger helis are much better in wind. You'll probably know this from flying the small ones outside.

[aamacgregor]

Thanks cjcj1949. Have you any advice on which clone kit to go for? I'm thinking I might upgrade the cyclic servo's on the Belt CP and then I'll have upgraded all of the electronics except for the ESC (I ordered the Overlander 3A UBEC you suggested by the way ). At that point I'll see how it flies. If it still isn't great then I might look for an Align 450 clone carbon frame, or perhaps a second hand Align 450.

[Bronek]

My first heli was used Trex 450 Pro - basically I wasted my money on it, now it's just a spare frame and parts . It was poorly build (terrible vibrations, bent flybar!) but because it was already built I had no idea how to start with it from zero. Yes I could strip it down, but I had no idea how to recognize parts that are worn or damaged.

It's only sensible to buy used heli from someone you can really trust. As far as used model helicopters go, FleaBuy is good for suckers who will buy anything because it's little cheaper than new, or for experienced folk who will do good with anything no matter how broken (even when sold as "almost new" - as mine was) it is. Well, there is third category of those who buy only to sell it immediately, with better marketing ...

I would still buy used heli advertised on this forum (if I needed one), though.

[aamacgregor]

That's food for thought. I'm just wondering if it is worth me getting a clone, or whether I'd be better off saving up and getting a new Align Trex 450.

[Bronek]

Re: Should I get a new ESC

It depends. I don't think there's anything special about quality of Align frame compared to, say, Gootch (although possibly Gootch comes with better quality screws - it would be difficult to find worse :-P ). However Align combi sets come with good quality and very well priced electronics. If you want different electronics, this won't matter - you will buy bare kit and electronics separately.

Align combi will take you in the air faster and at smaller expense, although there will likely be future expenses to upgrade parts (screws, bearings, aluminium parts, electronics). Since these upgrades are mostly matter of taste, the expenses associated are optional. Unlike repairs

One more thing: as any other brand, Align may come with duff parts. There is a thread started by SamS where apparently faulty Align ESC smoked his expensive flybarless unit - twice!